Kidd You Not!

MUSIC (00:02):

(music)

Shea Kidd Brown (00:06):

Today, I have the pleasure of talking with Kevin Dunn. Kevin is a senior at Wake Forest University, where he is studying Politics and International Affairs and Classical Studies. He’s minoring in Communication. Kevin is a familiar face on campus where he is a member of the Wake Forest men’s basketball team, president of Hit The Bricks, which is coming up this fall, and a tour guide, just to name a few. Last summer, he earned the prestigious Richter Scholarship, where he studied the Ukrainian diaspora. And this summer, he’s spent some time in New York City as an intern. I am looking so forward to our conversation today.

(00:41):

So hi, Kevin.

Kevin Dunn (00:42):

Dr. Shea Kidd Brown, how you doing today?

Shea Kidd Brown (00:44):

I’m good. How are you?

Kevin Dunn (00:45):

Great. Thanks for having me.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:47):

Thanks for being here. You know, I always laugh when you say, “Dr. Shea Kidd Brown,” (laughs) because you just say my whole name whenever you see me on campus. It makes me smile, so-

Kevin Dunn (00:54):

When I first met you, I thought it was your full last name, so-

Shea Kidd Brown (00:56):

Oh. (laughs)

Kevin Dunn (00:56):

I-

Shea Kidd Brown (00:57):

So you just said it all. (laughs)

Kevin Dunn (00:59):

Now it’s just locked it in my head. I can’t change it, so-

Shea Kidd Brown (00:59):

Yeah. Well, that makes sense. That makes sense. Dr. Shea is also okay.

Kevin Dunn (01:04):

I’ll try.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:04):

Well, I know you have a busy schedule, so thanks for making time to be here.

Kevin Dunn (01:09):

Oh, thanks. I listened to all the podcasts before.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:11):

Oh?

Kevin Dunn (01:11):

I listened to Coach Forbes’s. It won’t be as funny or entertaining-

Shea Kidd Brown (01:13):

(laughs)

Kevin Dunn (01:13):

… as he is, but-

Shea Kidd Brown (01:14):

Well…

Kevin Dunn (01:14):

… I’ll try my best. He’s the best, so-

Shea Kidd Brown (01:15):

Every story has merit, and-

Kevin Dunn (01:17):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (01:17):

… is funny, and all those things, so…

Kevin Dunn (01:19):

Well, I have no Iowa City stories, but I’ll do my best.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:22):

Yeah. I, I bet you have some stories, though.

Kevin Dunn (01:23):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:24):

So as you know, because you listen to the podcast, you know, this is really about getting to know you, your story. Nobody can tell it better than you because it’s yours, so that’s really no pressure. Everybody comes into these a little nervous, including me. So we have had a chance, thankfully, to connect several times since I started in my role, but we’ve really never had just a conversation without a meal, just talking about deeper things, so I’m looking forward to that so-

Kevin Dunn (01:51):

I’m excited to be here. I’m honored.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:51):

Thank you. I am too, honored you said yes.

Kevin Dunn (01:53):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (01:54):

So, and I know it’s a big year. You’re a senior, so lots going on, so I look forward to digging into that. But because you’ve listened to the podcast, you can guess what my first question is gonna be.

Kevin Dunn (02:02):

Where I’m from.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:03):

Yeah. Or where’s home for you?

Kevin Dunn (02:05):

Where’s home. [inaudible 00:02:06]

Shea Kidd Brown (02:05):

Yeah, yeah (laughs). So I am curious, you know, where is home and who was Kevin before Kevin was at Wake Forest?

Kevin Dunn (02:12):

Yeah. So I was born in Philadelphia. And then when I was four years old, moved to Los Angeles-

Shea Kidd Brown (02:16):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (02:16):

… Santa Monica. I was eight and moved to Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Never heard of it. [inaudible 00:02:23].

Shea Kidd Brown (02:22):

(laughs) You had never heard of it before.

Kevin Dunn (02:23):

Ne- I’d never heard of it, but I was super excited. Really nervous to move into Winston-Salem, and my dad and I signed up for a father-son basketball camp. Lived in Davis for three days.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:31):

Davis Hall?

Kevin Dunn (02:31):

Davis Hall.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:31):

Really? Oh my gosh.

Kevin Dunn (02:32):

The dorm which I then stayed in sophomore year.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:34):

No way. I did not know this. (laughs)

Kevin Dunn (02:35):

Um, we were roommates for three days. Had an absolute blast. What I remember is I’d been so nervous about moving to Winston-Salem-

Shea Kidd Brown (02:40):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (02:40):

… and then went to camp and I was like, “This is the best place ever,” you know.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:44):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (02:44):

Was a humongous Wake Forest fan from then on and I wanted to play college basketball-

Shea Kidd Brown (02:47):

Wow.

Kevin Dunn (02:48):

… when I was in second grade.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:49):

I did not know that. Your family has a history of basketball, right?

Kevin Dunn (02:52):

Right, so my great grandmother played college basketball on one side, and my grandfather played basketball in college-

Shea Kidd Brown (02:57):

Okay.

Kevin Dunn (02:58):

… and he beat Wilt Chamberlain in high school.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:59):

No way.

Kevin Dunn (03:00):

And then didn’t play that much in college, and then three of my uncles played college basketball and didn’t play very much, so that part runs in the family as well.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:06):

Okay.

Kevin Dunn (03:06):

Uh, not playing very much. But, uh, we have a lot of basketball in my family and we love it. My dad played in high school. My brother did as well.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:12):

And your brother also played football, right?

Kevin Dunn (03:14):

Football in college.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:14):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (03:14):

So, athletic family.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:15):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (03:16):

But I’m su- super proud to be, it’s my lifelong dream to play basketball at Wake.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:19):

Yeah, that’s amazing.

Kevin Dunn (03:20):

So three years. And then I lived in Winston until I was a senior in high school. Then I did an extra year in high school-

Shea Kidd Brown (03:25):

Okay.

Kevin Dunn (03:25):

… in Connecticut for basketball. And then I was going to commit to another school and then Wake Forest offered me, said yes on the phone, and then I had to call the other school back and say, “Hey, actually, no. I was gonna commit tomorrow, but got an offer I can’t refuse.”

Shea Kidd Brown (03:35):

Hmm. You tracked back to, to being eight in Davis Hall.

Kevin Dunn (03:37):

Yep, right.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:38):

Yeah. Well, I, I didn’t know that. I didn’t realize you were so young when you moved to Winston, so that truly is home.

Kevin Dunn (03:43):

Right.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:44):

That’s where you spent the majority of your time. Now, do you have memories from California at all?

Kevin Dunn (03:48):

I do, for sure, yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:49):

Okay.

Kevin Dunn (03:50):

It was, it was a lot of fun living in California. It’s very different than living in Winston. But I go back every year, too.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:54):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (03:54):

And then my dad used to work at the building next to Admissions, Starling Hall.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:58):

Okay.

Kevin Dunn (03:58):

So I used to walk from Summit School, which is the middle school across the street-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:00):

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Kevin Dunn (04:01):

… to Starling Hall, like, every other day.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:02):

Right.

Kevin Dunn (04:02):

So I would literally be on campus every other day, so-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:05):

Felt like a big kid on campus-

Kevin Dunn (04:06):

I did, I-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:06):

… even before you got here.

Kevin Dunn (04:08):

… used to work with my dad and I used to go the dining hall, and I thought it was the best place in the world.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:09):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (04:09):

Thought it was so cool.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:10):

Like, you can eat anything you want.

Kevin Dunn (04:11):

Oh yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:12):

You can have pizza every day. (laughs)

Kevin Dunn (04:13):

The ice cream machine was, like, a hit for me, so-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:15):

Well, it’s bringing back memories for me because my son has grown up in higher ed, too, and so he’s older now, but those same kinds of things exist for him, so I’ll be interested in where he chooses to go to college. So, you moved here in second grade. Tell me, you loved basketball, so that was a big thing.

Kevin Dunn (04:32):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:32):

But what else do you remember about being a kid? Uh, what kind of child were you? What, what was your personality?

Kevin Dunn (04:38):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (04:38):

(laughs)

Kevin Dunn (04:39):

I had a speech impediment, so I beat that, so I didn’t talk that much in class.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:42):

Hmm.

Kevin Dunn (04:42):

So once I was, in, like, fifth grade, started talking a lot in class. I remember just having, like, really tight friends.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:47):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (04:47):

And I loved playing football as well. I used to go to all the Wake football games, and I always loved, like, writing-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:52):

Yeah, say-

Kevin Dunn (04:53):

… so that kind of correlated to the politics major.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:54):

Say more about, so with the speech impediment-

Kevin Dunn (04:56):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:57):

… you said that was something you have to over- how did that manifest when you were young?

Kevin Dunn (05:00):

I was born, like, partially deaf.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:01):

Hmm.

Kevin Dunn (05:02):

And they ended up fixing it, but I couldn’t say my Rs, Ls, Ss, or Ts.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:06):

Okay.

Kevin Dunn (05:06):

So it was, like, half the alphabet I couldn’t say.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:07):

Wow.

Kevin Dunn (05:07):

A lot of work to, to beat it.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:08):

Sure.

Kevin Dunn (05:09):

But I didn’t talk that much when I was, like, in class.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:10):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (05:11):

And then once I finally was able to, like, talk and say, like, the words I couldn’t say, talked a lot more in class.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:15):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (05:16):

And I kinda became more extroverted.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:17):

Yeah, I was gonna say-

Kevin Dunn (05:18):

[inaudible 00:05:18]

Shea Kidd Brown (05:18):

… I would have never guessed. (laughs)

Kevin Dunn (05:19):

Yeah. So, my dad’s pretty introverted or maybe a little bit, and my mom was very extroverted, so I think I kinda, like, went from him to her a little bit.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:24):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (05:25):

But my dad, my personality are very much alike.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:28):

And I appreciate you sharing that, because we all have journeys.

Kevin Dunn (05:30):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:30):

That’s the whole purpose of this podcast, is to learn that because the Kevin Dunn I know is a hype man.

Kevin Dunn (05:35):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (05:37):

(laughs) Like, that’s, I think about seeing you, you know, basketball games and your involvement as tour guide, and so it seems like you really took that, as you said, beat it.

Kevin Dunn (05:44):

Right.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:44):

You really kinda conquered that, um, so you can-

Kevin Dunn (05:47):

Yeah, not really scared to speak out loud in groups anymore.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:49):

Right.

Kevin Dunn (05:49):

Did Public Speaking at Wake as well.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:50):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (05:50):

Which was a good class [inaudible 00:05:51]

Shea Kidd Brown (05:51):

And Comm is, like, a minor.

Kevin Dunn (05:52):

Comm is, yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:52):

(laughs) Right? One of your minors.

Kevin Dunn (05:52):

So Comm is a minor, lot of speaking as well.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:55):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (05:56):

So I feel like I’m able to talk in public a lot more and I actually kinda like it now.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:59):

Yeah, I love that.

Kevin Dunn (06:00):

It’s not really a fear anymore.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:00):

So what are those most meaningful experiences you’ve had at Wake? Because you’re on the basketball team, but you’re also involved in a lot of things that you just talked about.

Kevin Dunn (06:09):

Right. What I love about Wake Forest is that a lot of schools I was touring was the athletes live in XYZ dorm and no one else lives there.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:16):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (06:16):

Athletes eat at this dining hall. And Wake athletes are involved in everything-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:19):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (06:19):

… which I love. There’s not really a, it’s [inaudible 00:06:22] cool to be another student.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:22):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (06:22):

I mean, Coach Forbes says all the time, you know, as talented as you are in the court, person next to you’s as talented in that subject.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:27):

Hmm.

Kevin Dunn (06:27):

And it’s something that I think all of our players, all our teammates take to heart, is that people next to you are really, can be really special and they already are really special. Sitting next to you in class, people are gonna be CEOs or doctors, etc., etc.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:38):

Hmm.

Kevin Dunn (06:38):

And I met some really awesome guys my first week of school, and I just realized that Coach was speaking facts about that-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:44):

(laughs)

Kevin Dunn (06:44):

… and I love everybody Wake, and I feel like it’d be a disservice to myself and my teammates just to only hang out with basketball players.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:49):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (06:50):

And I’ve met a lot of great guys, so I think, my memories that I think about a lot are not even on the court. It’s, you know, just funny moments from, you know-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:56):

Right.

Kevin Dunn (06:57):

… living in a hall of nine guys sophomore year and-

Shea Kidd Brown (07:00):

(laughs) You’ll learn a lot then.

Kevin Dunn (07:00):

… our shenanigans there. Yeah, we learn a lot. You know, being in a fraternity’s been a lot of fun. Working with Hit the Bricks has been a lot of fun.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:06):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (07:06):

Tour guide’s been a lot of fun. And I feel like, you know, getting involved on campus and jumping in two feet first and you got to make your bubble bigger and bigger and bigger.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:13):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (07:14):

And I think a lot of people at other schools kinda make a smaller bubble by just hanging out with their fraternity or-

Shea Kidd Brown (07:18):

Right.

Kevin Dunn (07:18):

… hanging out with their sorority or hanging out with their sport. Getting to be able to get involved in so much and everyone wants to be involved in other things, and people kinda embrace who you are, whether that be on the court or in the classroom, XYZ, and this is a great community-

Shea Kidd Brown (07:30):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (07:30):

… where everyone wants to be involved and everyone wants to get to know their people.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:33):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (07:33):

It’s super fun. I love Wake.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:35):

Yeah, I love it too. And that’s one of the many things I love about our students. And I will say you’re not gonna brag on yourself, but I will. (laughs) Because your story’s not every student’s story. Uh, when Kevin Dunn is announced at a basketball game, the whole student section goes crazy. (laughs) So, I think you’ve really made an impact on the community, and it’s important for you to know that.

(07:53):

I really wanna talk about Hit the Bricks. B- you’ve been involved, but this is really a big year for you.

Kevin Dunn (07:57):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:58):

You’re the president. Tell me a little bit about how you got involved in Hit the Bricks and what it means to you, what we can expect from this fall as we gear up for that.

Kevin Dunn (08:07):

I need you on my job interviews, Dr. Shea.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:08):

(laughs)

Kevin Dunn (08:09):

You’re, you’re killing it for me right now. But on Hit the Bricks, I started second grade as well. My dad had a team-

Shea Kidd Brown (08:13):

Hmm.

Kevin Dunn (08:15):

… when I was in elementary school and I started running and thought it was so much fun.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:16):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (08:17):

Then my mom’s also a nurse at the hospital and does a lot of cancer patients, so I, I wanted to do it just for that. Wake ‘N Shake I missed my freshman year because I was at a basketball game.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:25):

Okay.

Kevin Dunn (08:25):

And Hit the Bricks was just so much fun. I don’t love dancing either, so Hit the Bricks kinda gravitated towards me.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:30):

(laughs) A little less pressure there.

Kevin Dunn (08:31):

S- yeah, less pressure. Not as many people watching. So I loved Hit the Bricks. I thought it was so much fun. So my sophomore year, got involved as Corporate Sponsorship Chair.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:38):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (08:38):

Just raising money, asking companies. And I did pretty well because I’m from Winston and knew a lot of companies.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:43):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (08:43):

And then junior year, Abby Draeger was the president last year, did an amazing job. She asked me to be her vice president as a junior, and said yes, and then that led to me being president this year.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:52):

Wow.

Kevin Dunn (08:53):

And it’s just such a great cause and, you know, doesn’t really feel like work when you’re doing stuff for it. You’re making a difference. We had our whole team got to tour the Cancer Center.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:00):

Hmm.

Kevin Dunn (09:01):

And it just kinda shows you, like, this is what you’re working for.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:04):

Doing it for.

Kevin Dunn (09:04):

And the doctors who work there, Cancer Center, showed us actually where the money went.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:09):

Hmm.

Kevin Dunn (09:09):

And it was just like, wow, that’s really special that we made a-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:10):

Right.

Kevin Dunn (09:11):

… small difference and kinda awesome.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:12):

Made a big difference.

Kevin Dunn (09:13):

Yeah, hopefully this year we break the $30,000 dollars as well.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:16):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (09:16):

Currently we’re just doing corporate sponsorship.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:18):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (09:18):

So, it’s just raising money, and then once we get back on campus it’s gonna be trying to get students to sign up.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:22):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (09:23):

I think one thing that we struggle with is that you can just kinda run on the quad and not sign up.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:27):

Ah.

Kevin Dunn (09:27):

And the point is you gotta sign up to raise money.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:29):

Right, right.

Kevin Dunn (09:30):

So we’re trying to change that a little bit this year-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:32):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (09:33):

… so everyone who runs signs up. But probably one, one of my favorite days on campus. I’m excited to have you here this year for it.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:37):

Yeah, me too.

Kevin Dunn (09:38):

Uh, everyone on campus, doesn’t matter if you’re in Greek life or you’re, if you’re the main guy in the play, like, everyone’s there-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:43):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (09:43):

… having fun. Everyone’s there as a whole Wake Forest community.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:44):

Yeah.

Kevin Dunn (09:44):

It’s really interesting.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:47):

It is one of those few days where everybody is out. Uh, I remember vividly my first one, and I’ve said this a few times since I’ve been at Wake. Most campuses, when they say tradition, it’s directly tied to a sports team or something like that, and here, generally speaking, people tie their tradition to philanthropy. So you think about Hit the Bricks. You think about Wake ‘N Shake or just Pro Humanitate, more generally speaking.

Kevin Dunn (10:11):

Right.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:12):

So it, that is really special about campus.

Kevin Dunn (10:14):

Yeah, I think Wake Forest is special as well just because we’ve worked so much to make our goal o- on Pro Humanitate.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:18):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (10:19):

I always say it incorrectly, but, uh-

Shea Kidd Brown (10:21):

Well, it’s a mouthful. (laughs)

Kevin Dunn (10:25):

Right, it’s definitely a mouthful, but I think it’s cool that a lot of our things go back to that. Like-

Shea Kidd Brown (10:26):

Yeah, and you mentioned, as you were talking about, the multidimensional aspects of being a Wake Forest student. So you’re a major in-

Kevin Dunn (10:32):

Politics and Classics.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:33):

And then a minor in Communications.

Kevin Dunn (10:35):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:35):

How’d you come up with that?

Kevin Dunn (10:36):

Right, so Politics, I’m currently pre-law-

Shea Kidd Brown (10:39):

Okay.

Kevin Dunn (10:40):

… and trying to figure out if I wanna go to law school or not. So, that’s the reason I did Politics.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:41):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (10:42):

And then Communication, my basketball advisor kind of said, “Hey, you should try it out.” I really liked it.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:46):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (10:47):

There’s so many fun classes. I took Screenwriting last year. Great class. And I took Public Speaking, so a lot of fun classes right there.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:52):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (10:53):

And then I also took Classics classes with Dr. Sloan, who I actually played basketball with growing up.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:57):

Really?

Kevin Dunn (10:58):

In a basketball league in Winston. He was like, “Hey, take some of my classes.” Took one of his classes, was like, “This is so interesting and not what I thought it would be.”

Shea Kidd Brown (11:04):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (11:05):

And, you know, there’s not many Classics majors at Wake, but I think, you know, if you take a class, you’re just like, “This is so interesting. I wanna dig more into it.”

Shea Kidd Brown (11:11):

Yeah, right.

Kevin Dunn (11:11):

So I, he met with me sophomore year. He’s like, “Kev, like, you gotta take X amount of more classes to be a Classics major. It’s so easy for you to do it.” And I was like, “Let’s do this.”

Shea Kidd Brown (11:17):

Sign me up.

Kevin Dunn (11:18):

So yes, the professors are all awesome.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:20):

Now, I know last summer you did a pretty significant tour internationally.

Kevin Dunn (11:24):

Right.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:24):

Was it connected to a, one of your specific areas of focus?

Kevin Dunn (11:27):

Right, so I’m most interested in international politics for my major.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:30):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (11:31):

And I did the Richter Scholarship. I got nominated for it. There’s a bunch of different things you can do with it. You can basically just say, “Hey, I wanna do this,” and they send you to a different country. One of my friends is currently in Australia doing, like, surf therapy, researching that.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:41):

Interesting.

Kevin Dunn (11:42):

So that’s super cool. So, when she figures out-

Shea Kidd Brown (11:44):

I need to go on some sites visits for these trips-

Kevin Dunn (11:45):

(laughs) Right, I know, yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:47):

… because you guys come back and you’ve got all these great stories.

Kevin Dunn (11:49):

Right.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:49):

I need to know what campus life is abroad.

Kevin Dunn (11:52):

Um, so I wanted to go abroad really badly, but I obviously can’t with basketball.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:54):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (11:55):

And my brother went abroad and, you know, Wake Forest, everyone goes abroad. So I was like, “Dang, I really wanna go abroad,” and talked to the faculty in the Study Abroad Office, who are all amazing, and they advised me to apply for this. And I applied for it, and I remember I was really interested in immigration and then also international-

Shea Kidd Brown (12:09):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (12:10):

… so I chose to do the Ukrainian immigration crisis.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:12):

Wow.

Kevin Dunn (12:13):

So, where were immigrants coming from after the war in Russia? And I went to, like, 21 different countries.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:18):

I was trying to remember the-

Kevin Dunn (12:18):

20 if you don’t count The Vatican.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:19):

Right.

Kevin Dunn (12:19):

But, you know, I’m Catholic. I had to go to The Vatican for my grandma.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:21):

Yes, of course.

Kevin Dunn (12:22):

And, uh, which she was very proud of me for that. I went to the intake center in each country and just kinda interviewed people there, see how they were doing it differently.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:28):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (12:29):

And I wrote a 30-page paper about how, uh, different countries were doing the intake centers differently-

Shea Kidd Brown (12:33):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (12:33):

… and why they were doing it differently. And super thankful for and grateful for that experience.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:36):

Do you feel like when you came back, of course there was a paper attached-

Kevin Dunn (12:40):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:40):

… but what are those kinda tangible lessons that you feel like you learned?

Kevin Dunn (12:43):

Well, you know, like, there’s definitely a lot of days of practice where I’m like, “Wow, this is really hard,” or, like, “Coach is really mad at us right now.”

Shea Kidd Brown (12:49):

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dunn (12:49):

Or, “Sprints stink.” But when you think about what you saw in Europe and going to-

Shea Kidd Brown (12:52):

Hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:05):

Hey, it’s Dr. Shea, and it is our season one finale episode, believe it or not. So we have been talking through and thinking through what we have learned, and I say we because it’s a team that has created this podcast over the last year, and today is really just about wrapping up our episodes and looking forward to the future. So far, we have recorded 17 episodes, including this one, and we are so appreciative of everyone who has listened in. And to remind you, our guests have included Dr. Jose Villalba, who’s our chief diversity officer, Dave Clawson, who serves as head football coach. There have been some reflection episodes sprinkled in. We’ve also had Dean Jackie Krasas, who serves as the Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences in the graduate school. We’ve had Heidi Robinson, who was one of our Associate Vice Presidents who supports our students’ career and personal development.

(01:05):

We’ve had Jackson Butler, who is one of our seniors. He’s also our Student Body President. Our Chief of Police, Regina Lawson. Senior Austin Terrain. We’ve had head basketball coach Steve Forbes and President Susan Wente, and we’ve had an episode with me that featured my son, Jack Wilson. We’ve also heard from Vir Gupta, who is our producer, but we also got to hear his story. We’ve heard from everybody’s favorite, Sonny Davis, and the class of 2024, Cate Pitterle, Badr Merdassi, Sydney Smith and Sean Brady. Whoa, that was a mouthful. I’m just taking a moment right now, because there are so many people that we’ve been able to hear their stories and elevate how important our shared humanity is through lots of different perspectives and lenses and world views. So I’m so, so, so grateful for everyone who has been a part of this.

(02:02):

And speaking of gratitude, I mentioned at the beginning, it is a we thing. So there’s lots of gratitude as it relates to the team who is supporting the podcast. So first and foremost, Vir Gupta. You have heard me talk about how this podcast came to be, and it was really about a student reflecting back to me that I could do this. And so I thank Vir for that initial nudge, but also for producing the podcast. He has carefully edited and helped with sound balance and all of the various things that go into the podcast. So, thank you, Vir. I know you have a very, very busy schedule, so I really appreciate you.

(02:41):

Gretchen Castelloe, who serves as the Campus Life Fellow at Wake Forest University, and Gretchen has assisted with lots of different logistics, from scheduling to helping with preparation, and to just keeping me on track, which can be hard to do. So, much appreciation to Gretchen. Also, I want to thank Abigail Brumfield and Debbie Mason, who serve as wonderful colleagues within the Division of Campus Life, and they also assist with a lot of the administrative logistical aspects of the podcast. Paul Whitener and the WakerSpace. Each time I get to go into the recording studio, Paul greets me with a warm smile, and just being able to have a facility on campus where students and faculty and staff can work on their craft, so no matter what that is. In my case, a podcast. So many, many thanks to Paul and the WakerSpace team.

(03:36):

Certainly our student assistants and students in general. So I appreciate when I can bounce an idea off and a student says, “Hey, we should do this,” or, “Have you thought about this,” or, “What about Ms. Sonny in the Pit?” So I always, always appreciate student feedback and the work of our student assistants in keeping this moving forward. And finally, I want to thank you, our listeners. So without you, you know, we just are sitting in a booth recording and don’t necessarily have anyone who’s listening. So thank you to our listeners, and all of our guests who have been a part of birthing this new project.

(04:12):

So in this last episode, it will be short, but I really just want to express how appreciate I’ve been. Uh, I’ve learned so much from each guest. And as I play things back, admittedly I am not a fan of hearing my own voice, but I think we all share that awkwardness and sort of cringey moments when we hear ourselves, but that’s not what this is about. It’s about the things that I’ve learned. So some of the things I’ve learned is, I talked about in a recap episode last year, I generally begin each podcast with this question about home and origin story. So through that, of course there are some themes and commonalities. And, uh, one of those things is that home is really more than a stationary place. So when I say, “Where is home for you,” I think most guests would say what that place is. In my case, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, but you almost immediately hear people describing what that is and why it’s home. So it’s not just a stationary place, but it’s a feeling.

(05:13):

I remember Heidi Robinson, one of our early episodes, said, “Home is a place where you can take your shoes off.” And I think that’s such a good imagery of just a sense of comfort that comes from home. I love asking that question of our students. When I say, “Where’s home for you,” they will often recount where they live on campus, which I think is the ultimate compliment, that home, even after a few months, particularly for our first years, is their residence hall. You know, we’ll continue to start our podcast, more than likely, with that question, because I think it just is a great place to launch a conversation.

(05:49):

Another theme that many people talked about is this fact that we need people. So there’s no one that I have sat down with who has said, “I got here on my own and I’m enjoying this life of solitude.” (laughs) Um, everyone talks about the importance of mentoring and community and building friendships and relationships and being able to navigate hard things in community with other people, and being able to celebrate successes in community with other people. So that’s a commonality that I continue to see, and it’s just important. At Wake Forest, we talk about pro humanitate, and that’s our motto. And it’s a Latin phrase meaning, “For humanity.” And so it is this really interesting concept. And I think of course we all have different ways of understanding what community means, but I’ve seen that throughout all of the conversations that I’ve had, that we truly need people, and we’ll continue to build on that in our future episodes.

(06:50):

We also have unique talents and strengths. And, you know, I think back to when I interviewed Coach Forbes versus President Wente versus our students, and how each person has these unique talents, whether it’s motivation or being able to understand complex ideas as it relates to the sciences or taking a life experience and making that their own and launching that into academic pursuits. So I think we all do. And as you’re listening, you know, it’s not just the guests that I talk to that have talents and strengths. We all do. So, you know, I want you to think about what are those things you’re naturally good at? What are those things, when you wake up in the morning, that just become, they’re really organic and they’re just really easy for you? We all have those things. So how do we think about refining that?

(07:39):

And also, how do we think about that in our lives? Just a life of positivity and thinking about what’s going right in our lives. And certainly, we can’t ignore the things that are not going so right, but it creates a different way of thinking and knowing and understanding the world. So encourage you to think about that.

(07:59):

Another theme that has emerged is that we all want to belong. So we all have this deep desire to feel connected. I remember as I interviewed Sonny Davis, she said, “You don’t have to fit in. You’re already in.” And that’s something I need to embroider on a pillow or put on a canvas or something, because I think that’s such a great way to think about this notion of belonging. Maya Angelou, who taught here at Wake Forest for many, many years, has a quotation that is, “The ache for home lives inside of us, the place that we can go as we are and not be questioned.” And I’m paraphrasing a little bit, but, and we all have that ache for connection and belonging and home. And I love her quote particularly because she says, “Place where we can go as we are.” So unapologetically who we are, that’s really the notion of belonging.

(08:56):

Many of you know if you listen to me very long, that’s a passionate area for me, is this world is thirsty for connection, and sometimes it manifests in just the opposite. But I think we are all interested in that. So that’s an interesting theme that has come out. You know, I continue to learn. There’s certainly a lot of reflective opportunities, but I’ve just so enjoyed sitting across a table with someone else, not checking my phone, not checking my email, and the same goes for the guest, but just being locked in. So even if you say, “I’m not ready to host a podcast,” I would encourage you to think about who are those people you really want to connect with, and find some time to maybe go tech-free and connect deeply around story, because we all have one.

(09:43):

As we prepare for a little bit of a break, when you work in higher education, there are these natural seasons. So I live my life in academic semesters. So when I talk to my friends outside of higher ed, I’ll say, “Well, in May, you know, there’ll be a natural break,” and we don’t, as an administrator, we work year-round, but the season makes it a little bit quieter on campus. And so that creates a little bit of a break for the podcast. So as we prepare for this break and plan out the academic year, we’ll be thinking about what’s next on the podcast. So we’ll begin planning for next year. And as I get feedback from those around me, I imagine you’ll hear from more students, more campus celebrities, and maybe JW will even come back, my son.

(10:29):

I just want to end as I began, by thanking you. Thank you for being a part of this community that strives to lead with hard work and heart work. And I encourage you, whatever you do in life, whether you work in higher education or maybe you don’t, live your life in semesters, I encourage you to take a few moments to reflect and renew. Think about, what are you grateful for? What lessons is life teaching you right now in this moment? What are you looking forward to? All of those questions are important. And in this life that tends to just continue to be busy and noisy, we all need these moments to sit still with our thoughts. So I encourage you to do that.

(11:10):

And just know that you matter, that we all have an amazing stories to share. I Kid You Not. So until next time, until the beginning of season two, I encourage you to keep leaning into that hard work and heart work. And we’ll be back in the fall. Thank you again for listening.

MaryAnna Bailey (11:29):

This episode was produced by Vir Gupta, in association with the university’s campus life team. For any thoughts and suggestions on what or who you want to hear next time, reach out to us on our socials using the information in the show notes. I’m MaryAnna Bailey, and this was Kid You Not.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:06):

Hey, it’s Dr. Shea, and I’m back with these four Wake Forest seniors from the class of 2024. As we approach the end of the year, and as some of our students are about to experience a huge milestone, commencement, I thought it would be a good opportunity to look back on the last few years, how we got here, obstacles we’ve overcome, and successes we have celebrated. In the last episode of Kidd You Not, seniors Cate Pitterle, Sydney Smith, Badr Merdassi, and Sean Brady discussed their transition to college for the Fall 2020 semester, during the height of the global pandemic. We discussed feelings of uncertainty and isolation, but we also talked about the joy of finding community through residence halls and student organizations.

(00:54):

We ended our last conversation by turning the corner from the bleak first few semesters during COVID to asking when Wake Forest began to feel like home. Today, we’re gonna jump right back into our conversation, and I’m so excited to hear what they have to say. In sort of keeping along that thread of home, um, who are the people, the resources, the offices that really helped? Um. Badr described it as safe and comfort. Are there particular personalities, faculty that you feel like really helped in that way?

Cate Pitterle (01:32):

So many.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:33):

(laughs).

Cate Pitterle (01:34):

Um. I love this question, because I love to brag about all of the mentors and role models here.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:38):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (01:39):

Obviously, working at Campus Life for the last two years with you, Dr. Shea, and with Debbie and Abigail, and now Gretchen, has been really, really wonderful and that’s become like a little space for me where I feel very safe.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:49):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (01:49):

But there have been other offices too, the scholar’s office with Jackie Sheridan-

Shea Kidd Brown (01:53):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (01:53):

… and Acacia, some of my favorite people on the planet, I love them so much.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:57):

(laughs).

Cate Pitterle (01:57):

Leadership and Character has been really wonderful.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:58):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (01:59):

Ann Phelps, Michael Lamb. Jazz, now, who is so cool.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:02):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (02:03):

There’s just a lot of really, really cool people. Definitely professors as well. Um. She’s gone now, she was a visiting assistant professor, my first two, maybe three years, Carolyn Coberly in the Politics Department. I don’t know if anybody’s had her classes, but I took three classes with her.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:17):

Wow.

Cate Pitterle (02:17):

Also, Dr. Hallier, I took three classes with.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:19):

Wow.

Cate Pitterle (02:19):

I became known for this, where I would take-

Shea Kidd Brown (02:21):

(laughs) three classes.

Cate Pitterle (02:23):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:23):

Frequent flyer.

Cate Pitterle (02:24):

Yeah. I was, literally, I would take like two or three classes with the same professor because I would find a professor that I would like, and I would just like, “All right, what are you teaching next semester? How can I fit it into my schedule?” Actually, the Russian Department only has two professors, so very similar experience as well.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:39):

(Laughs). Nice.

Cate Pitterle (02:39):

So I’ve gotten to know a lot of professors very well, and that’s just been something I think that I’ve sought too. Leadership and Character has this idea too of a moral exemplar, which is essentially just a really fancy way of saying role model.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:51):

Oh. A moral exemplar.

Cate Pitterle (02:52):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:52):

Wow.

Cate Pitterle (02:53):

It’s a really good phrase. Use it at parties, totally.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:56):

(Laughs)

Cate Pitterle (02:57):

Totally a point of conversation, because it’s allowed me to view my role models through the light of having a quality or a virtue, or a value that I really want to emulate. So for me, like my parents, for instance, are moral exemplars for me in different ways.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:12):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (03:12):

But also the people who I’ve met at Wake are moral exemplars in different ways. So people who I think are really passionate or really compassionate, people who are really kind, people who are really patient. Just people who have qualities that, like, I seek to cultivate in myself. And I’ve been able to find a lot of that at Wake.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:28):

I have the benefit of seeing you all, and your posture, your body language, all shifted when I asked that question. And so I can’t wait to hear the other responses.

Badr Merdassi (03:37):

The list is too long at this … and I’m so grateful to be able to say this.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:42):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (03:42):

You know, it-

Shea Kidd Brown (03:42):

That’s a gift.

Badr Merdassi (03:43):

It’s a, exactly.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:44):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (03:44):

And we shouldn’t take it for granted because we’re able to do this just because Wake Forest allows us to be in such a small community that can actually call itself a community. Because we do genuinely develop bonds that I think transcend just our four years here.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:00):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (04:00):

And I wouldn’t make it where I am today without the people I was able to know. And the first two weeks, first name that popped into my head is Maria Henson.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:10):

Mm.

Badr Merdassi (04:10):

Extraordinary person, who I met in the parking garage of my first-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:16):

(Laughs)

Badr Merdassi (04:17):

No, it’s, it’s true. It’s parking garage of my first quarantine. She came with, just to say hi to students she never met before, just to say hi and just offer some strong word of support. And from there, she’s become a mentor of mine. Dr. Susan Fahrbach, who was my FYS, and lower division advisor. I had her fall semester freshman year, and my only small time, in a sense of community at Wake Forest was her office hour on Monday, through Zoom, 6:00 PM Tunisia time. Thanks to her, I made it through that semester, truly-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:52):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (04:52):

And she knows that. And across those years, I can say that Dr. V is one of those role models for me. So many others I’ve been able to just develop relationships with. And you as well, Dr. Shea, I’m happy to count you in there. And I’m very grateful for that.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:08):

Thank you. And I love the name drops because I think our faculty, staff, administrators do this because they love it, and don’t ever know, like what was the moment in the parking lot, you know, or it was a moment in time often that is etched in your memory forever, and for them, they have many moments, and so even thinking about how critical that period was for you, when you were so disconnected from everything that’s happening in Winston-Salem, and even the impact of time.

(05:37):

I think about that now for our international students. I was talking to a student a couple weeks ago who will be on a different podcast, it’s like a crossover. But Vir Gupta, who you all know, but home is India for him, so hearing him talk about even, we only have like this little window of time that I can connect back to my family, and you only have this little window of time that you could connect with faculty.

Badr Merdassi (05:58):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:58):

Or you were really tired and trying to figure out how to navigate.

Badr Merdassi (06:01):

No. That’s, that’s totally it.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:01):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (06:02):

I think what you said earlier, before we kind of began, was just the posture change and like the-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:06):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (06:07):

You know, everyone’s face, I think accurately reflects the question as the sense of home that Wake Forest provides, because that’s like one of my favorite questions because to answer it defines what Wake Forest is to me.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:16):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (06:17):

Some of the departments I’m, you know, eternally grateful for because they did shape my time at Wake Forest, they made me realize this is home, is certainly Student Engagement especially, our lovely friends in S.O. Office-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:29):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (06:29):

As well as the, uh, Student Organizations Office. And outside of that, you know, my awesome friends in Pi Kapp and AKPsi certainly shaped my experience at Wake. I think the one that I always, like, think about a little bit now is you’re never like abandoned at Wake in that sense.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:42):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (06:42):

Where, you know, two of the professors that stick out the most to me were ones that I had in my sophomore Fall, and one that I have right now, which I think is unique in that they stand out both at the beginning of my real Wake Forest time-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:54):

Right.

Sean Brady (06:55):

And at the end of my time, which is, you know, Professor Cianci, from the Accounting Faculty, and uh, Professor, uh, Harris-Perry from the Politics Department, and both for kind of unique reasons, which is, you know, Professor Cianci showed me kind of like how a professor tries to kind of find like the light or the uniqueness in each student, and kind of let them find that for themselves in the subject, right? I felt like the professor believed me, her happiness was driven by our success in the classroom, and that was Wake Forest to me.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:21):

Mm.

Sean Brady (07:21):

And now with Professor Harris-Perry this semester, like someone who comes into a classroom and understands it’s, you know, her duty to kind of like captivate us all, right? Like that it’s more than just we’re gonna listen to her present on the subject matter that we’re learning about that day, but that it’s a two-way discussion.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:37):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (07:37):

It’s a two-way conversation. And you know, for that, very grateful. Those are the people, especially some of my closest friends right now, that have defined Wake Forest for me.

Sydney Smith (07:45):

Yeah. When we talk about Wake Forest being home, people say, “Home is where the heart is.” If you’re from the South, people make jokes like, “Home is where your stomach is, and where the good food is.”

Shea Kidd Brown (07:51):

(Laughs)

Sydney Smith (07:52):

So I’ll definitely talk about some of the staff members on campus who honestly help us eat, right?

Shea Kidd Brown (07:59):

Mm.

Sydney Smith (08:00):

So you guys know Ms. Sonny in the pit.

Sean Brady (08:01):

Oh, yeah.

Sydney Smith (08:01):

Everyone knows Ms. Sonny in the pen. So Ms. Sonny, for those of you who don’t know, all the listeners, right? So she’ll be sort of at the main checkpoint and when you’re swiping at the main dining hall, the pen. So you know, you swipe your Deacon One card, and whether it’s the morning or the afternoon, she always has the sweetest thing to say to you. When I was-

Sean Brady (08:15):

Morning, sweetheart.

Sydney Smith (08:15):

Yes. “Good morning, sweetheart. Good morning, baby.” She’s so sweet. I think it’s really nice that even, like as we’ve progressed through COVID, which it was so nice to have someone, when you’re going to get as close of a equivalent to a home-cooked meal as you can have when you’re away from home, someone who’s really sweet when you’re walking in and who makes that experience a little bit better.

(08:32):

So Ms. Sonny, all of the individuals who work in the pit, honestly. Miss Jessica. You guys might not know her, but she’s the head of catering at Wake Forest. All of the individuals who are behind the scenes making, we’ll say the eateries, happen. They go out of their way, or in my opinion, they’ve gone out of their way during my time at Wake to not only say kind things and acknowledge me kindly when I’d like to eat, but asking me how my day is. The same sort of energy that I hope to give to them and be like, “How are you?” And if they tell me on a Monday about their cousin, I’ll be like, on Tuesday, “How’s your cousin?” They’ll ask me about my classes, about my tests and everything, and that, in my opinion, was so unique to me. I expected that a lot from my professors, and I got that, but to go away from the academic setting of Wake Forest and still have those meaningful conversations was really nice. It made it feel like home even more.

(09:13):

And I’ll also say that when I toured at Wake Forest, my tour guide, Danny Meyers, he sat us down, the tour group, in a classroom. He was talking to us about how, you know, Wake Forest is great, all the typical things a tour guide will say, and then he said, or he reminisced on the time that he and some of his classmates were invited by a professor to the professor’s house for dinner. And my mom, she was like, “You need to be one of those smart kids who gets invited over to your professor’s house for dinner.” I was like, “I don’t know how to go about that. I feel like he’s just saying that to say it.”

(09:39):

When I chose Wake, this goes even more into it being like home, Leigh Meyers, who works in the Benson University Center, my mom somehow became friends with Danny and now is friends with Ms. Leigh, and Leigh Meyers, um, she talked to me about it, she was like, “Oh, you know, have you gone to anyone’s house for dinner yet?” I have gone to people’s house for dinner.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:56):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (09:56):

My professors will invite classes over and everything. Corey Walker, who I think he was just named like the new Dean of the Divinity School or something.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:02):

Right.

Sydney Smith (10:02):

He was over at the Journalism Department down there, and he was just, you know, speaking all sorts of knowledge to us. So back to my core beginning-

Shea Kidd Brown (10:09):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (10:09):

It’s like home is where the heart is. Home, I guess really is where the food is because-

Shea Kidd Brown (10:13):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (10:13):

Everyone who I’ve had a meal with, who has helped me, serve a meal, like they’re just always so kind and it’s made my experience so good.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:18):

Yeah. I very much connect with that, and I think about, as you were all talking about home, home really is routine and familiarity.

Sydney Smith (10:27):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:27):

And safety, and so many people have been a part of that happen for you, even in a dark time, dark period, and that’s what’s been pervasive, I think, about the Wake Forest culture, has been tested in the most obvious ways, through global pandemic, and yet that light still shines through. And as I mentioned, you know, I plopped in your second year, when we, we were still masked, if y’all even remember your spring of your sophomore year-

Sydney Smith (10:54):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:55):

… until spring break, we were masked and couldn’t have food with events, or events with food. So I was in that with you for at least a time, but I love hearing pervasiveness, and I love the Sonny shout-out.

Sydney Smith (11:08):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (11:08):

And, um, by the time this episode drops, we will have already dropped an episode with Ms. Sonny.

Sydney Smith (11:14):

Oh.

Cate Pitterle (11:17):

Oh, that’s so exciting.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:17):

Yeah. Yeah. So-

Cate Pitterle (11:17):

And she deserves that.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:18):

She’s amazing and she loves our students. And I think having that commitment from everyone who’s here, they’re getting up thinking about you, it’s really special and it’s even more special to hear you reflect that back. So we rounded the corner in various ways, some ways, like Cate said, not a specific time and place, but curious, what are you most proud of as you think about this whole synthesis, at this point, of a college experience.

Sean Brady (11:43):

Some of the things I’m most proud of is, at the end of the day, I think similar to kind of what you alluded to, a phrase that I think we will all recognize and kind of live with for the rest of it, is kind of the, “Our way forward,” mindset.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:54):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (11:54):

Right? That was Wake’s kind of early on, kind of way of addressing our way, which I think is unique in the sense of it’s not a, you know, we need to restart, and it’s not that we need to like change permanently, but it’s how we’re going to move forward. And I think that mindset allowed for me to internalize it on my way forward.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:09):

Mm.

Sean Brady (12:09):

Recognizing like COVID is not going to be the only obstacle or the only kind of life-altering moment in all of our lives, but especially our own. That opportunity freshman year really showed me, you know, the importance in a, “My way forward,” thought process, where things are not always going to go perfectly, but being able to kind of pivot, pick up, change direction, and adapt, is key to being successful in just all that you do. And I think about all the times where I would ask for more hours in the day-

Shea Kidd Brown (12:36):

Mm.

Sean Brady (12:36):

Because of how much was going on, right?

Shea Kidd Brown (12:38):

Right, yeah.

Sean Brady (12:39):

That you’re going to bed at three, four in the morning, back up at 7:00 AM. Those days were tough because there’s so much to fit in a day, and I would probably be a little over-extended at times with commitments and opportunities, leadership stuff. But that made Wake Forest not only worth it, but what I’ll remember forever.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:54):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (12:54):

And I think that’s what I’m proud of, is the idea that I think it could’ve been easy for a lot of us just to say like, “I’m gonna just kind of put my head down and four years will go by-“

Shea Kidd Brown (13:02):

Right.

Sean Brady (13:02):

“And I can forget all about that,” but I think this campus allowed for us all to be like, “Hey, we might only have three years, but we’re gonna make it feel like an entire lifetime in that time.

Shea Kidd Brown (13:11):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (13:11):

I totally agree with that. I developed this mindset of having to take advantage to everything that I’m possibly given. I wanted to do every opportunity, I wanted to go to every event. I started using Google Calendar my sophomore year-

Shea Kidd Brown (13:23):

Oh, there you go.

Cate Pitterle (13:23):

And it was full. And I will say, like actually it’s really interesting, all of my friends are like that too, like the people who I know who are seniors, they all are go-getters, they want to take advantage of everything, and I think when you’ve had a lot of things stripped away, with freshman year, when you really didn’t have any opportunities in a lot of the sense of the word, you want to go do as much as possible when you finally have the opportunity. I actually started making bucket lists, so when I was abroad, I had my London bucket list with everything I wanted to do in Lon- … Oh, and I also have a senior year bucket list. Like I just have, like all these things.

Sean Brady (13:56):

(Laughs)

Cate Pitterle (13:56):

I think it really just gave me this mindset of there is only a limited amount of time that you have at Wake, that you have in life, just in general, if there are things you want to do, you might not get the opportunity to do them again.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:06):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (14:06):

What COVID really taught me is, for instance, like my senior year of high school, there was a sense that … we went in trimesters. We were super weird, we went in trimesters.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:13):

(Laughs)

Cate Pitterle (14:13):

The third trimester was the one where you’re supposed to have fun. What was the date? Like March 11th or March 13th.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:18):

March 13th.

Sean Brady (14:19):

Sounds about, yeah.

Cate Pitterle (14:19):

So it was, I think it was the 11th for us, and then I remember everything everybody else on the 13th, because I remember that was like, it was like Friday the 13th.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:25):

Eh.

Cate Pitterle (14:25):

Yeah. Oh my gosh, it was Friday the 13th. Yeah, but I remember like that date, we were on our break and we were supposed to go back to school for the third trimester, and all I remember thinking was, “Why didn’t we start doing the fun stuff more?

Shea Kidd Brown (14:36):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (14:37):

Because it all got cut off and we just had kind of spent the previous two trimesters applying for colleges-

Shea Kidd Brown (14:42):

Right.

Cate Pitterle (14:42):

Kind of putting our heads down, doing a lot of work. However-

Shea Kidd Brown (14:45):

But there was an assumption that you would get to do that.

Cate Pitterle (14:47):

Right.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:47):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (14:47):

There was an assumption that once that third trimester came, senioritis would be allowed to kick in, and that was when we would spend more time with our friends and get to do all those senior traditions.

Badr Merdassi (14:55):

It’s kicking.

Cate Pitterle (14:56):

It is kicking in right now. Yeah.

Sean Brady (14:57):

Hard. Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (14:59):

But there was this sense, like it was guaranteed. What has really happened to me, and probably to a lot of you guys as well, we no longer have the sense that things are guaranteed.

Shea Kidd Brown (15:07):

Mm.

Cate Pitterle (15:07):

For me, I just spend as much of my time as possible trying to create a balance of, obviously working really hard, but also spending time with my friends and going to like a baseball game or a basketball game, or a football game, like it’s something fun like that. Or taking time to explore Winston-Salem, go to coffee shops.

Sydney Smith (15:22):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (15:22):

I love going to coffee shops.

Sean Brady (15:24):

(Laughs)

Sydney Smith (15:24):

You and me both, girl.

Cate Pitterle (15:24):

Oh, yeah.

Sean Brady (15:24):

You picked a good spot for it.

Shea Kidd Brown (15:26):

We talked about your fancy coffee yesterday, and how there was a certain look when I told Cate I use K-cups and she was like, “Oh.”

Cate Pitterle (15:33):

Oh, yeah.

Sydney Smith (15:33):

What?

Cate Pitterle (15:33):

You have to use espresso.

Shea Kidd Brown (15:33):

(Laughs)

Cate Pitterle (15:36):

My roommate got an espresso machine and changed my life. Anyway, we’re going off of … I’m really proud of how I’ve been able to take advantage of things, so …

Shea Kidd Brown (15:43):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (15:44):

I like that. Something that has come to me. This is definitely some quote on Pinterest or something, but I’ve been saying it a lot recently, but basically when someone else gets something good for them, so they receive a blessing, if you will, that doesn’t mean that’s something taken away from you. And I think that, especially being the senior class and seeing like this freshman class, like your sister, Sean, it’s like they’re having the time of their life right now.

Shea Kidd Brown (16:04):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (16:04):

Even last year’s freshman, like they were really getting into it and they were enjoying what is supposed to be that next stage of life. We talked about, you know, struggling with jealousy, or just being a little envious about that, and I mean, I did too. And so now, as I’m graduating, or about to graduate Wake Forest, I think I’m really proud not only taking that lesson from COVID times and reckoning with how this year freshman are having all the fun things and I didn’t have them, but also, I mean, you guys are all seniors, you guys go on LinkedIn, my gosh.

Sean Brady (16:31):

(Laughs)

Sydney Smith (16:31):

I’m sure you guys have some amazing opportunities lined up, and I’m sure that, knock on wood, I’ll have some soon as well, but you scroll through LinkedIn, and you see all these seniors not just at Wake, but at other surrounding universities talking about this position and that position, and all the good things that are coming their way, and you’re so happy for them, for your friends and your family, but if you aren’t there just yet, you’re like, “Oh my gosh. Why not me?”

(16:50):

But recently, couple months ago, I was starting to realize, just because something good happens to someone else, that doesn’t mean that’s something taken away from me.

Shea Kidd Brown (16:56):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (16:56):

And I think that is something that I’m definitely going into this, hopefully without COVID, I’m going to this next stage of life, into my twenties and into my younger professional career, realizing that wherever I end up, if someone gets the promotion first, that’s not a jab at me, it’s just because something else is coming-

Shea Kidd Brown (17:11):

Your way.

Sydney Smith (17:11):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (17:11):

That’s such a great way to think about things.

Cate Pitterle (17:13):

It really is.

Sean Brady (17:13):

I like that a lot.

Sydney Smith (17:14):

Thank you.

Badr Merdassi (17:15):

I’d say the thing I learned at Wake, that the most precious thing you could give someone is your time. I really go back on how I’m here today because people gave me their time, and just met with me. I mean, how many universities can a student actually meet with the President or like with other senior administrators? And that’s just, you know, what I remember sophomore year, quad laps, right there with Rogan Kersch was the provost and-

Sydney Smith (17:42):

Quad laps, I love it.

Badr Merdassi (17:43):

Um, and we were just having coffee. And you can imagine how busy a Provost of Wake Forest can be, and taught me that, in the future, I have to give back the most precious thing, which is my time, to other people and hear their story genuinely, without looking at them and thinking, “Okay, what’s next?”

Shea Kidd Brown (18:03):

Right.

Badr Merdassi (18:03):

Just be in the moment.

Shea Kidd Brown (18:05):

Being present.

Sydney Smith (18:05):

Uh huh.

Badr Merdassi (18:06):

And be present, and genuinely hear what they have to say. And I’m meeting right now with alums, and extremely successful alum said to me, “I’m here thanks to other people who paved the way for me, and I want to give back.” And yeah, that just resonated with me a lot, because this happened like a month ago. And I’d say that’s my biggest takeaway from Wake; give your time to people.

Shea Kidd Brown (18:27):

Well, all of you, I mean, what you’ve shared, question was what you’re proud of, and I think a lot of seniors might be talking about titles and jobs, and next steps, and what you’ve really talked about is learning. And I think that’s so indicative of what we do here, you know?

Sydney Smith (18:43):

(Laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (18:44):

That we, you have a great time and you meet people, and you become a better person. And as we’re kind of on that same thread, you have the clarity of the rear view at this point, so you are inching toward commencement and those next steps. So as you think about your first year selves or the students who are coming after you, what advice would you give them?

Badr Merdassi (19:07):

Get yourself out there. That would be the most important thing at Wake. We all say that Wake is about people, you have to get yourself out there to meet those people. The earlier, the better. If you just keep that in mind, if you get yourself out there, good things will come to you. Just be genuine in every action you take, and even if sometimes it’s wrong, well it was a genuine action and you’ll think through it.

Sean Brady (19:33):

Kind of a two-parter, but you are your own person, your own unique person, like you can only let someone tell you, you know, who to be. And at a place like Wake Forest, to do Wake Forest successfully, you have to be okay with being your own person, right? I think a lot of people want to show up and, you know, they kind of have to find that initial pod of people, and that pod of people can potentially have you, in your senior year, being like, “Why did I choose that major? Why did I choose, you know, this, that I’m involved with? Why am I doing that?”

(19:58):

And I think recognizing that you are your own person and there’s value to that, and that’s the best way to give back to the Wake Forest campus is bringing your unique self to it, and everything that you have, that’s the best way to not only give back, but you’ll find your people that way, you’ll find your major that way, you’ll find your interest that way. And I think it’s very easy for freshmen, and just about anyone in any situation, to feel a need to kind of connect to a group, whether that’s really for them or not in the long run.

(20:24):

I think being open-minded and realizing that like, at a place like Wake Forest, you can just be yourself and it’ll work out, is the greatest thing. For me, that might’ve taken me til my junior year, but I’m grateful for it.

Shea Kidd Brown (20:34):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (20:34):

But similar to what being said earlier, it’s like give it the time. You know, appreciate what you can bring to the campus.

Shea Kidd Brown (20:40):

Mm-hmm. Give it the time, like we all want to know, can we just fast-forward to the end? Like this is going to be okay and it’s where that, we come through that with way more awareness and clarity.

Cate Pitterle (20:51):

This is such a funny question because during that same mentorship meeting that I mentioned earlier, my genuine, genuine advice to two first-year students was to open a high yield savings account.

Sean Brady (21:01):

(Laughs)

Sydney Smith (21:01):

Yes. That part. That part. Please.

Cate Pitterle (21:02):

And that was what I was thinking about at the time, was how I needed to open a high yield savings account, and I wished I’d done it earlier. And long story short, that was my advice and they gave me two very blank stares.

Shea Kidd Brown (21:14):

(Laughs)

Cate Pitterle (21:14):

Um. And I think that one thing I’ve learned at Wake that is advice that I do regularly give younger students who ask, is to do the things that you’re passionate about, and do the things that are meaningful to you. It’s not always going to be possible to take a non-profit job, doing something that you’re really, really passionate about, making no money. Like there’s logistical and logical elements too, but do the things, even if it’s just a hobby that you find meaning in, that you find joy in, that you feel like, if you contribute your time, and in some sense, your life to it, that brings you a sense of personal fulfillment, and I think that it’s so easy to get caught up in the peer pressure and the need to look impressive to other people.

(21:57):

One thing that I’ve definitely noticed is, as you get older, it’s a lot easier to kind of grow out of that mindset and start to realize that the things that matter to you personally are what really matters, and that the need to … This is a term that is rarely used now, but I think it’s still pretty relevant to our culture here, is Wake Face.

Shea Kidd Brown (22:13):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (22:14):

The need to put on this kind of mask, for lack of a better word.

Shea Kidd Brown (22:17):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (22:18):

Like Wake Face is basically like the need to perform.

Shea Kidd Brown (22:20):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (22:21):

Like the need to look impressive to other people, and I do think that is definitely a prevalent part of Wake Forest culture, and definitely with other colleges with high-performing students, but I think that it’s just really important to, as early on as you can, get out of that mindset and just do the things that you really want to do, not because they look good or because you’re chasing titles, or anything like that, but because they’re important to you. That would be the actual advice-

Shea Kidd Brown (22:44):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (22:44):

That I would give.

Shea Kidd Brown (22:45):

That’s good. In addition to the-

Cate Pitterle (22:47):

In addition to the high yield savings account.

Sean Brady (22:48):

(Laughs)

Cate Pitterle (22:49):

Amen. (Laughs)

Sydney Smith (22:51):

I’ll start with this. I’m going to pat myself on the back briefly, because I did just write the Letters So Dear.

Shea Kidd Brown (22:55):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (22:56):

That hopefully the incoming fist-year students-

Cate Pitterle (22:58):

Nice.

Sydney Smith (22:59):

… will, you know, read. And I did give, uh, my top ten pieces of advice.

Shea Kidd Brown (23:01):

Okay.

Sydney Smith (23:02):

So I was trying to figure out which one I felt like I should say for this. Originally, I was going to say stop comparing yourself to everyone else, but I feel like that combines everyone else’s advice, so I’ll say it. Stop comparing yourself to everyone else, please, please, please.

(23:13):

But honestly, I would rather give a piece of advice that’s more general and less specific to Wake. My dad, growing up, would always say this to me, and I kinda always thought it was silly, but you should find at least one thing to smile about every day. One specific thing.

Shea Kidd Brown (23:27):

Hmm.

Sydney Smith (23:27):

I tried to be really good about it, I would try to do one good thing a day, I’d write it down because even if you had the worst day in the world, at least one good thing happened. And I feel like, especially when you’re away from home, in whatever capacity, whether it’s at Wake or some other place, when you’re in that new stage of your life as a incoming college freshman, it’s really easy to fixate on the negative things, or the things that aren’t going according to plan. And I think acknowledging that at least once before you go to bed that night is just so, so important in college and beyond. So.

Shea Kidd Brown (23:54):

Yeah. Such good lessons. So on that same thread, I want to know what is one good thing that you’re looking forward to as you think about the future?

Sean Brady (24:03):

I guess I’ll jump in. I think like it is definitely sad, I think we’re all feeling that way, that because this feels like home, right?

Shea Kidd Brown (24:10):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (24:10):

And there’s a little sentiment in my mind of, “I wish I had that year back,” in a way.

Shea Kidd Brown (24:14):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (24:14):

Right?

Shea Kidd Brown (24:14):

Of course.

Sean Brady (24:15):

Like I see what value this has brought to my life, and ability to grow, and I wish I had that freshman year to capitalize on. I never feel like I’m truly leaving, foresee Wake Forest being a, a component of my life forever, and I think it’s like a goodbye for not, but not forever.

Shea Kidd Brown (24:29):

Right. Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (24:30):

In, in that sense, but I think because of people I’ve met, I’ll always see Wake Forest wherever I go. And the ability to be fortunate enough to have a job, going up to New York City next, in the fall-

Shea Kidd Brown (24:40):

Congrats. Exciting.

Sean Brady (24:40):

And I know a lot of people that are going to be there.

Shea Kidd Brown (24:42):

Yeah, exciting.

Sean Brady (24:42):

And I think that’s the most exciting part is, is that I don’t feel the freshman self of, “Ooh, who am I going to meet? Who am I going to know?” I know there’s people that I’m going to get to meet and that I’ve never seen before in my life, I think it’s comforting to know that I’m kind of moving with a team of Demon Deacons up there.

Shea Kidd Brown (24:56):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (24:57):

Some of my best friends here at Wake Forest are going to be going up as well, and I think that’s what I’m excited about.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:01):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (25:01):

As someone who’s not exactly sure which city I’m going to end up in yet-

Shea Kidd Brown (25:05):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (25:05):

First of all, I’m very grateful for the fact that Wake Forest has hubs in a lot of the places that I would really be excited about going to.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:10):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (25:11):

And as someone who was a little nervous coming in their freshman year, even though people will say, “Oh, yeah, you know, you’re talkative,” obviously. Um. “You have a bigger personality, you don’t need to worry about how you’re going to make friends or how that process will go smoothly for you, or if it’ll go smoothly, because you’re doing fine.” I still get nervous about it though.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:26):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (25:26):

And instead of focusing or fixating on the nerves of, “Who am I going to talk to all the time next year? What is it going to be like when I’m in my first, you know, big girl job?” I’m excited for it.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:35):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (25:35):

Because I don’t know who those people are yet, and I think that spins something, especially, like post Spring Break, as we really move closer to graduation, I’ve had to get comfortable with, or try to get comfortable with the idea of not being a freshman again, but being new again.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:47):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (25:47):

Even if you do have the Demon Deacons around you, it’s like, “Where’s this place and where am I?”

Shea Kidd Brown (25:51):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (25:51):

“Who am I? And who do I want to become?” I’m excited for that.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:56):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (25:56):

And I want to know what’s coming next.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:56):

Something to look forward to, for sure.

Cate Pitterle (25:57):

That’s so true. I feel like you’re kind of talking about something that I’ve really been like hitting on lately, is embracing the unknown.

Sydney Smith (26:03):

Yes.

Cate Pitterle (26:04):

This idea, I was just talking about this with somebody, that when you’re in middle school, you go to high school. When you’re in high school, you go to college. And then when you’re done with college, what next?

Sydney Smith (26:11):

Right. (Laughs)

Cate Pitterle (26:12):

So I think, for me, like just not really knowing what working is going to be like and that sort of thing, that’s something that I have just really learned to embrace.

Shea Kidd Brown (26:20):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (26:20):

I’m just really excited to explore, to try new things, to meet new people, and I do think, like to your point, that not knowing where my friends are going to be, not knowing whether or how I’m going to be able to be regularly in touch with a lot of my friends at Wake Forest, just kind of taking a step back, allowing myself to reflect, kind of sit with that uncertainty, and just kind of understand that like it’s going to be okay and that the people who are really meaningful in your life, you’re going to stay in contact with them. And coming home for Homecoming will be really wonderful, so I’m really excited for a change, honestly.

Shea Kidd Brown (26:52):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (26:53):

I know that we’ve had three, four, however you want to qualify the years at Wake Forest, of college, and even though it hasn’t all been typical, it’s definitely become like very routine, and it’s become very normal-

Shea Kidd Brown (27:05):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (27:06):

And I kind of have this schedule, I have my day-to-day, like I have the things that are normal and familiar to me, and I’m really excited for things to not be normal and familiar anymore.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:13):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (27:13):

And that’s just something that I think at first was really scary, but now I’m, I’m just really excited for it.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:18):

You’re ready.

Cate Pitterle (27:19):

Yeah, I’m ready.

Badr Merdassi (27:20):

The certain uncertainty one can, although it can be sometimes overwhelming, and one can appreciate the day-to-day was still sort of organized.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:29):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (27:30):

So now there’s a huge, not just uncertainty, but you know you’re going somewhere else, and that’s exciting.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:36):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (27:36):

But one thing I’m just so excited about is my mom finally coming here-

Cate Pitterle (27:42):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (27:42):

Um, for graduation.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:44):

(Laughs)

Badr Merdassi (27:45):

I mean, I just can’t wait for that. And that’s one thing I’m really looking forward to, but if we’re talking about future, future, Homecoming is definitely something.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:54):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (27:55):

I can’t even, you know, we’re still processing graduating-

Shea Kidd Brown (27:58):

Right.

Badr Merdassi (27:58):

So Homecoming is still very far away, but still very exciting to think that we’ll be back here, that’s for sure. One thing I can certainly say is that every single student on this table is coming back at Wake at a certain point in time. Maybe we’ll do this exact podcast.

Shea Kidd Brown (28:14):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (28:14):

Just imagine that.

Sydney Smith (28:14):

Oh, a reunion podcast.

Badr Merdassi (28:14):

Just the Reunion Podcast.

Cate Pitterle (28:16):

Aww. That would be cute. Yeah, that’d be really sweet.

Badr Merdassi (28:16):

Like just imagine that. Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (28:16):

Not how to college, how to adult.

Sydney Smith (28:23):

Adult, yes. It’s a series, I like it. Wow. Stop it.

Cate Pitterle (28:25):

Don’t say that.

Shea Kidd Brown (28:25):

Y’all got me all in the feels right now. The way I would love to end our time together, thankfully I have the best job on campus, and it’s not ending, but at least for today. I just want to know what you’re grateful for right now.

Sean Brady (28:40):

Without a doubt, absolutely grateful for my family and friends. And I know that can sound kind of like straightforward, but I’m very thankful for my family for being able to provide the opportunity for me to attend an institution like Wake Forest, and to help set me up for success to take advantage of this environment I’m in, and I’m absolutely thankful for my best friends here at Wake, and the six guys who I’m referencing, they know who they are, but uh, without them, Wake Forest wouldn’t be what that is, what it is to me, and I don’t think I would’ve succeeded at Wake Forest without my family or friends.

Badr Merdassi (29:11):

It’s going to sound repetitive, but definitely my family, but especially my mom. I mean, I definitely would not be able, not only to be here, but stay here and also succeed here.

Shea Kidd Brown (29:23):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (29:24):

And you know, every day it’s just, when it’s a struggle, I just call my mom, and even with the time difference, struggling and all over everything, and she just grounds me back.

Shea Kidd Brown (29:35):

Mm.

Badr Merdassi (29:35):

And, and that works even with a phone call.

Shea Kidd Brown (29:38):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (29:38):

And that’s powerful.

Shea Kidd Brown (29:40):

It is.

Badr Merdassi (29:40):

So I’m very, very grateful to her. I’ll let here know when this podcast airs, and uh, she’ll listen to this, so …

Shea Kidd Brown (29:47):

And even that powerful relationship spans-

Badr Merdassi (29:49):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (29:50):

No matter how far away you are.

Badr Merdassi (29:51):

Exactly.

Shea Kidd Brown (29:51):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (29:52):

Exactly.

Cate Pitterle (29:52):

I think we all might have the same answer.

Sydney Smith (29:53):

We definitely do.

Cate Pitterle (29:58):

I was just thinking, I was like, “What else could I say I’m grateful for,” because I … the people are what come to mind-

Sydney Smith (30:01):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (30:02):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (30:02):

First as well. I mean, my parents, of course. Like they have been just my in-built, like support system forever, but my mom and dad are very familiar with my walking to class calls.

Sean Brady (30:13):

(Laughs)

Cate Pitterle (30:13):

Just like the designated, like random times of day, where I just am like, “Hey, I just wanted to update you on this random mundane thing that happened.”

Sean Brady (30:20):

(Laughs)

Cate Pitterle (30:21):

And it’s very important to me that you know this right now, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I’m going to get lunch, and I’m going to go get Chick-fil-A, I’m going to eat chicken nugget,” like just like, you know, like just-

Sydney Smith (30:29):

The daily.

Cate Pitterle (30:30):

Just the daily.

Sydney Smith (30:31):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (30:31):

And I’m very grateful that they are willing to listen to that, but also that they have been there for me throughout all four years, and obviously will continue to be there for me. But that’s just something that I’m really grateful for, that … I was just on the phone with them, so I’ve just been, been thinking about that. But also the people here, who have kind of become like those advice givers for me, I feel like I have a few people, you included, Dr. Shea.

Shea Kidd Brown (30:54):

Oh, thank you.

Cate Pitterle (30:54):

Who have given me just really great advice, who have kind of been a listening ear, who have sat and listened when I’ve needed it, who have been the people who I can go to if I’m, like if I have an actual problem, which is, luckily, rare. But, but also just if I, you know, want to talk or want to get some advice on something, or … It’s been really nice to have people who I feel like I can go to with anything.

Sydney Smith (31:16):

I will round it off with a similar answer, but I’ll try to make it somewhat different-

Sean Brady (31:21):

(Laughs)

Sydney Smith (31:21):

With a brief anecdote. I almost didn’t apply to Wake. I came up and I toured, and I did the interview-

Shea Kidd Brown (31:26):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (31:26):

And my application. And then, because I said earlier in the podcast that I am indecisive, but I like having a lot options-

Shea Kidd Brown (31:32):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (31:32):

That I didn’t decide until May 1st. I was driving home one day from high school, before the COVID, you know, came in to attack us. And my mom called me on the phone, she said, “Oh, how are college apps going? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,” I said, “You know, I think I’m just about done. I’ve gotten them all in, I’m going to wait and hear back now.” And she said, “What about Wake?” I was like, “Oh, I didn’t apply.” She was like, “Why not?” She was very upset. She was very upset, obviously. And I was like, “Well, I just, you know, it’s already up, like past 10 schools, I think I’m okay.” And she said, “You already went up there, you already did the interview, just apply. Just take the opportunity.” And I did, and good things happen.

(32:02):

So people ask me if I can describe Wake, you know, a couple of words or one word, I usually tend to say that it’s an opportunity, and it was definitely a very large opportunity that was made affordable in a lot of ways for me, and I’m just so grateful for that. So to answer your question, my family, of course. Especially my mom, because I wouldn’t be right-

Shea Kidd Brown (32:19):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (32:19):

Literally, in so many ways.

Shea Kidd Brown (32:20):

Without that nudge.

Sydney Smith (32:21):

Yes, without that nudge.

Shea Kidd Brown (32:22):

Push, maybe.

Sydney Smith (32:23):

Yes, it was a push. Also, I’m grateful for the opportunities, plural, that Wake has afforded to me. When you told my introduction on the podcast, you wrote … you said Homecoming Queen, and even being on Homecoming Court, it was like, it felt so superficial, to a degree, because it’s like same ol’, same ol’, it’s like high school again, and now I’m working with people on the court, trying to figure out, you know, next year, what sort of service opportunities they could do, what’s like the next step? And I just feel like Wake has compounded upon itself in my life as opportunities-

Shea Kidd Brown (32:50):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (32:51):

And just how I can either make an opportunity available and affordable to me, or to others. So I’m grateful for my family and the opportunities that Wake has afforded to me.

Shea Kidd Brown (32:59):

Well, you can’t see the chills, but I do have chills-

Shea Kidd Brown (33:02):

As you’re talking about, you know, the people in your life and the connectivity through all of your gratitude, I think is really powerful, and for your families to know how critical they’ve been to your success, and to hear your chosen family that you found at Wake, be it friends, family, uh, friends, faculty, administrators, staff. And Sydney, how you ended, just this whole spirit of Pro Humanitate, and how the human connection really is what makes this experience so unique. So I’m very grateful to be able to sit at this table with you and also the table that we get to create in a lot of different environments, and I so appreciate you sharing your stories, you know, stories of resilience and stories of uncertainty, and trying to figure life out as an 18-year-old, and your stories of accomplishment, meaning, you know, what did you learn about yourself and other people, and how did other people bring you along?

(33:58):

So it’s just been such a rich conversation, and I’m so grateful, and I’m so excited for you, as you think about the future, for some it’s still unknown, but we all know you’re going to be just fine because this education, which you know happens in formal ways and really informal ways, has prepared, and you’re ready. There is no doubt that you’re ready for the world. A lot of people will say, “Can’t wait to see where the journey takes you,” and I can’t wait to see where you take the journey, because you get to really decide and dictate what those twists and turns are going to be, and just know that it’s going to take you far.

(34:33):

And so I feel so grateful, and this community is enriched and so much better because of each of you. So thank you for being here-

Badr Merdassi (34:41):

Thank you.

Sean Brady (34:41):

Thank you. That was wonderful.

Cate Pitterle (34:41):

Thank you, Dr. Shea.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:43):

Yes. I can’t wait to celebrate you on the quad.

Sydney Smith (34:45):

See you on May 20, yes.

Cate Pitterle (34:45):

Yes.

Sean Brady (34:46):

Yeah, be here before we know it.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:49):

Very much so. So thank you all.

Sean Brady (34:50):

Thank you.

Cate Pitterle (34:50):

Thank you.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:53):

Oh my goodness. My cup is so full, and I said this when I was talking to the students, but I have the best job on campus. I mean, just hearing these amazing students and their stories, and how they have made sense of these last four years, I have so many things that I need to process, based on all the wisdom that they shared. These students were second years when I began, and it is absolutely amazing hearing their stories. No doubt, they are going places and I know they will take this special time with them for a lifetime.

(35:27):

I hope you took note of all of the knowledge that they dropped, and I want to thank you so much for listening. In a world that has a lot of noise, I appreciate you dedicating the time to hear their experiences. And truly, I think it’s an opportunity for us to think about what we’ve all learned through the last four years, what lessons have we learned about ourselves? What are we grateful for? What have we overcome? I think those are all important things for us to reflect on, particularly for this episode. We all have a unique story to share, I kid you not. So let’s keep leaning into the hard work and heart work that life brings our way.

MaryAnna Bailey (36:09):

This episode what produced by Vir Gupta in association with the University’s Campus Life team. For any thoughts and suggestions on what or who you want to hear next time, reach out to us on our socials using the information in the show notes. I’m MaryAnna Bailey and this was Kidd You Not.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:00):

Hey, it’s Dr. Shea, and I’ve got an exciting episode for you.

(00:13):

This time of year on a college campus is all about the celebration. This year we are especially mindful of the class of 2024 and their journey since 2020. From abruptly ending high school to a bumpy start in college in isolation, there is so much learning that has happened with this group. I’m truly amazed each time I learn about their experiences.

(00:37):

And today we have four graduating Wake Forest seniors. And let me tell you, I cannot wait to jump into this conversation.

Cate Pitterle (00:47):

Hey.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:47):

Hi.

Sydney Smith (00:47):

Hey.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:49):

How you doing?

Cate Pitterle (00:49):

Good, how are you?

Sydney Smith (00:49):

Good.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:50):

Good, I’m great. I’m even better now that I get to see y’all. How are you all doing?

Badr Merdassi (00:55):

Pretty good.

Sydney Smith (00:55):

Good.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:56):

I have to say, I am so glad to be sitting with each of you. And for all the listeners out there, I am sitting with four very accomplished students. And between you, I am going to do a little bit of reading ’cause I wanna get this right, three different kinds of scholars, two presidents aids, representatives from student government, a student athlete, and homecoming queen (laughs), student employee, members of Panhellenic Council, NPHC, and the Interfraternity Council.

(01:22):

We have in state students, out of state students, and an international student. At least six languages are represented here. Courses of study in STEM, humanities, economics and politics, and representatives from too many clubs to count.

Badr Merdassi (01:37):

(laughs).

Cate Pitterle (01:37):

(laughs).

Shea Kidd Brown (01:38):

So you’re such a great snapshot of Wake Forest students, so I’m really, really excited that you’re here today.

(01:44):

There’s one really important thing you have in common, you all started in the fall of 2020 at Wake Forest. If you think back, college courses were meeting remotely, student gatherings were restricted, weekly COVID testing was the norm.

Sydney Smith (02:01):

Oh, God.

Cate Pitterle (02:01):

I forgot about that.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:02):

I know. Fast-forward today, you’re all thriving seniors who, I noted earlier, you have all been super involved on this campus and our community locally, regionally, nationally, internationally.

(02:13):

I wanna hear about what that journey has been like for you. So before we get into all that, I do wanna do a quick round of introductions. So let’s start with your name, where home is for you, and your major. Like I said, where you call home, so often I don’t say where are you from, but I wanna know where home is for you.

(02:32):

So we’ll start maybe with Badr.

Badr Merdassi (02:36):

All right. Well, my name is Badr Merdassi. I’m double majoring in biology and in economics. Home for me is Tunisia, and that’s also where I’m from. And I look forward to this podcast.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:48):

Yeah. Only a few more weeks.

Sydney Smith (02:50):

Stop.

Cate Pitterle (02:50):

Don’t say that. Don’t say that.

Sydney Smith (02:50):

Don’t say that again.

Cate Pitterle (02:50):

[inaudible 00:02:54] (laughs).

Sean Brady (02:54):

Yeah. So my name’s Sean Brady. I’m also a senior, as we’ve all talked about. Home for me is Wilmington, Delaware. I’ve been able to be a double major in economics and politics.

Cate Pitterle (03:03):

I’m Cate Pitterle. I’m from Cary, North Carolina, which is kind of near Raleigh, if you’re familiar. I’m a politics major, with minors in Russian and history.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:12):

Excellent. So politics and politics. Let’s see if Sydney continues some-

Sydney Smith (03:16):

Oh…

Shea Kidd Brown (03:17):

… contagion of connectivity with majors (laughs).

Sydney Smith (03:20):

Only a smidgen. So, hi, everyone. My name is Sydney Smith. And I’m also a fourth senior here. Home for me is Lawrenceville, Georgia, but I lie when I’m at Wake, and I tell everyone that I’m from Atlanta. Um (laughs), so I’m maybe, you know, 30 minutes outside of Atlanta-

Cate Pitterle (03:32):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (03:33):

… if I’m gonna be truthful on the podcast.

(03:35):

I’m a communication major, and a journalism minor. I took French for the first two years here, but I will say that one of my on campus jobs has allowed me to start very, very, a smidgen, learning Russian.

Cate Pitterle (03:45):

Cool.

Sydney Smith (03:45):

Only a little bit. Only a little bit.

Cate Pitterle (03:47):

Oh, interesting.

Sydney Smith (03:48):

Yes. You can’t ask me any of it, it’s all on my phone right now, but (laughs)…

Cate Pitterle (03:49):

Yeah, you probably can’t ask me either (laughs).

Shea Kidd Brown (03:52):

I love it, I love it. So thank y’all, thank you again for being here. I think as we were trying to put the season together, it felt important to me that we hear from students who are nearing a really important milestone, but also very different from the average student in May, like, your whole formative years in many ways have been shaped by a global pandemic. I think back to high school and what was happening there, and also your start to college.

(04:21):

So let’s rewind back to high school, you were likely finishing your senior year, many of you, from a computer screen. Not exactly what you imagined. Perhaps the hopes of prom were dashed, perhaps a senior trip, or various parties and graduation, so you didn’t really have that celebration. And then as you thought about college (laughs) and what that might look like, you’re getting ready for a huge transition in your life.

(04:46):

So I think the first question, for some of these I may direct to particular people or… but feel free to react to each other certainly as we’re talking. But what were you thinking during that summer 2020? And how did you approach that transition to Wake Forest?

(05:01):

So maybe let’s start with Cate, and then maybe go in order of distance to your travel to Wake Forest, so maybe that would be Sydney, and then Sean, and then finally Badr, whose transition involved the ocean.

Cate Pitterle (05:16):

(laughs).

Shea Kidd Brown (05:16):

How does that sound?

Badr Merdassi (05:16):

That’s-

Sydney Smith (05:16):

Sounds good.

Cate Pitterle (05:16):

Yeah. I definitely remember feeling like things were very uncertain. More than anything, I remember doing a Netflix party with my best friend, watching High School Musical 3, which is the movie where they graduate, and just hoping that we would have something similar.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:35):

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (05:35):

My high school really, really tried to prepare something for us, so we ended up did, having a very small graduation ceremony. And I think that sense of ritual, celebration-

Shea Kidd Brown (05:42):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (05:43):

… was really, really important. And I think that’s something that we lost, that in particular the cost of 2020 of high school was really, really craving… we realized how much ritual meant to all of us.

(05:53):

But I was kind of straddling between these two worlds of not really knowing if I was gonna get to technically graduate high school, but also trying to prep myself for this really, really big transition of going to college.

(06:04):

I do remember being very grateful that I wasn’t moving too far away from home.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:07):

Sure.

Cate Pitterle (06:07):

And the one thing I do remember thinking especially as we were going into August, having a lot of friends who went to UNC Chapel Hill, and NC State, was just this hope that we were gonna be able to remain on campus-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:17):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (06:18):

…for the year. All of the students at UNC Chapel Hill and NC State were sent home after, I think, 12 days.

Sydney Smith (06:23):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (06:24):

So I was just really grateful when right after they had all been sent home, we were able to move onto campus.

(06:29):

And there was a lot going on in my brain back then, but that was definitely, I think, where my head was at.

Sydney Smith (06:33):

Similar to you, so being from Georgia, or we’ll put it in quotation marks, so being from “Atlanta” it was weird during the summer of 2020. There was a lot going on with COVID, and also just with social activism, and a lot was happening in the United States.

(06:46):

I remember back in March when college decisions were coming out, also a very indecisive person, I like to have a lot of options, so I actually didn’t choose Wake until the May 1st decision day (laughs).

Shea Kidd Brown (06:54):

(laughs).

Sydney Smith (06:55):

When I finally settled on that, and I was trying to, you know, get excited with my parents, even though COVID was still at large, if you will, I was like, all of a sudden it hit, “Oh, you know, I am going out of state.” Which I was always excited to do, I always wanted to be an out of state student.

(07:09):

Also, a lot of my friends were very surprised when I chose Wake, because it is a smaller, more community knit type of school. And they were all like, “Oh, you’re gonna go to a big state school,” and that was sort of my personality going into college. But then it hit, you know, “I don’t know anyone.” And then we’ve all been inside of our houses for weeks and months at a time, like, “Do I still know how to talk to people? Am I gonna be good at this? Will I make any friends?”

(07:29):

So I actually growing up doing gymnastics and cheer in high school, I told everyone in high school I was not gonna try out for cheer. I thought it was very silly at the time.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:36):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (07:36):

And then COVID being COVID convinced me to step (laughs) out of my comfort zone. So my head was sort of at, “Try anything, try everything, make a couple friends, and nothing can hurt.” Which is why when I got to Wake I was really grateful for already having that sort of student athlete community on campus.

(07:50):

And similar to what Cate was saying, I was like, “Oh, I might be a part of a team. But is that team gonna be able to remain on campus?”

Shea Kidd Brown (07:54):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (07:55):

And that was a really big part of my, I guess, anxieties. I was really happy that we were able to stay, and also happy that we were even able to attend the sporting events.

(08:03):

I would say, moving into my freshman year my mind was just, “Just go for it.” Because I don’t wanna miss out on any small things, since so many things were taken away our senior year.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:11):

Right.

Sean Brady (08:11):

For me, my kinda thoughts kind of began actually the summer prior, so I di- had an opportunity to visit Wake Forest in July. I was sold on Wake Forest right away, that’s where I did early decision. Like, I came back down in September on a beautiful fall day, people all out over the quad, and I had a vision of what Wake Forest looked like.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:27):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (08:28):

I had seen it on a summer day, but I had also seen it on a fall day, and a lot of similarities, maybe not as many people in July. But I knew what the Wake Forest campus looked like and felt like, and it had so many, you know, connections to where I went for high school.

(08:40):

And prior to that, ’cause I went the same place all 14 years, it was s- small class sizes-

Shea Kidd Brown (08:45):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (08:45):

… personal connections with your professors and administrators and others on campus.

(08:49):

And COVID began to hit, and that kind of feeling in high schools across the country, right before spring break, of, “What is this thing that everyone’s talking about in the news? Are we gonna be back afterward?”

(08:58):

It was all a lot of thoughts at once, because having been accepted to Wake Forest in the fall, I had a lot of time to plan out everything I thought I was gonna do at Wake Forest.

Sydney Smith (09:06):

Right.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:06):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (09:06):

Right? Like, I’m a bit of a, of a planner in that sense. And I thought, “This is the group I’m gonna join, this is the club or organization, these are the classes I’m gonna take.” Having all that time, and, you know, COVID hits. It’s similar to what we were talking about, it’s like this sense of unknown and kind of a, a loss of connection, and unsure of…

(09:20):

But I think, for me, what brought me comfort was compared to other classmates of mine back home, Wake Forest seemed to have a very, like, deliberate approach early on of being very present with the incoming class, but also the students that are currently here.

(09:35):

May or June and I was getting on a Zoom, and I saw two people I had no idea, but they were President Hatch and Vice-President Rue.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:42):

(laughs).

Cate Pitterle (09:43):

(laughs).

Sean Brady (09:43):

And they, they were just their face, no one else. And I knew there was a thousand other people on this screen, that was kind of my first, like, true connection to Wake Forest post-COVID, were two faces that were trying to be inspiring in this uncertain time of really selling the class on, “We’re gonna bring you back. Might not know every particular of that, but Wake Forest is a community, and that’s what we’re built on. And we believe that has to be in-person to the best of our ability.”

(10:05):

So I think because of that I felt more comfortable-

Shea Kidd Brown (10:07):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (10:07):

… over the summer, knowing that it may look different, but the campus was working to recreate.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:12):

Yeah, there’s a plan.

Sean Brady (10:13):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (10:13):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:13):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (10:14):

It’s kind of funny to remember all this right now, you were just, um-

Shea Kidd Brown (10:17):

This can also feel like therapy for y’all, if that, if that helps (laughs).

Cate Pitterle (10:17):

(laughs).

Badr Merdassi (10:20):

Yeah. And, I mean, in a way it’s therapy/PTSD, yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:24):

Oh, I’m sorry.

Badr Merdassi (10:24):

No. That time was definitely something I was not prepared for, but I don’t think anyone was prepared for that.

(10:30):

The last part of my high school was online. And Tunisia at that time didn’t have a lot of COVID cases, but because I went to French school and France had a lot of COVID cases, the president of France at that time just decreed that all schools, even at home or overseas, would close and go online. So we went online, although in Tunisia COVID was not that widespread in 2020.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:54):

And what month was that, do you remember?

Badr Merdassi (10:56):

That was around April 2020.

Shea Kidd Brown (10:57):

Yeah, so a little bit…

Badr Merdassi (10:58):

We went online beginning of April. I had accepted my admission for Wake Forest in March. And then we actually had a ceremony for graduation, and it was really fun.

(11:08):

I had, I would say, quite a fun summer. There were not a lot of restrictions in Tunisia. The last part, August, they really changed. The whole country was on absolute lockdown, curfew. You know, the semester was going to start, and I just, “Where am I going?”

Shea Kidd Brown (11:24):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (11:24):

“How is this gonna be?” My parents were so afraid, they weren’t talking about a vaccine at that time.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:30):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (11:30):

Which it seems crazy to us right now, but that was the case. So they decided that I would be doing fall semester from home. I remember receiving an email from the registrar’s office that was saying, “Well, you didn’t register for any classes. What is happening?”

(11:45):

I didn’t even know we had to register for classes.

Shea Kidd Brown (11:48):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (11:49):

I didn’t know what a credit meant. I’m coming from a different system, and I was just so sad that I was missing on this experience. I was thinking, “Oh my God, everyone is having the fun-“

Shea Kidd Brown (12:00):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (12:01):

Like, “They, you know, deserve in college. They’re starting their freshman year,” and I’m just here in my room, and that’s college for me. And I just couldn’t believe it.

(12:10):

You know, I was looking at people on the screen, and was like, “Right after classes I’m sure they’re going to do something.”

Cate Pitterle (12:16):

(laughs).

Shea Kidd Brown (12:16):

(laughs).

Badr Merdassi (12:17):

“They’re going for, you know, university clubs,” and things like that. But it wasn’t the case.

(12:20):

And then I came spring semester. And spring, sun, everything was blooming. And then that’s the Wake Forest I’d seen in the videos-

Shea Kidd Brown (12:28):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (12:29):

… and on YouTube, because that’s the extent I had seen before coming. It was just I’ve never come to North Carolina, never visited Wake, so that was my start.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:36):

Thank you. You all have some connectivity to your stories, but it’s all very distinctly different. It’s really interesting to hear how everyone was making meaning, someone from in state, someone from not too far away but a different state, someone from the northeast, and then someone international. Even the timeframes are different for you, Badr-

Badr Merdassi (12:53):

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:54):

… because this thing was so geographically oriented.

Badr Merdassi (12:57):

Oh, yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (12:57):

Which is we now are in a place where we can reflect back a little bit-

Badr Merdassi (13:01):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (13:01):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (13:01):

… about all the things that were happening.

(13:03):

So, Badr, you started us on this track of, like, what that first semester was like. So I would love to just hear a little bit about what did it feel like to be on campus? What were the words that you would use to articulate? And this is, you know, anybody who wants to jump in.

Sydney Smith (13:19):

Uh, color orange, right? (laughs).

Shea Kidd Brown (13:21):

Color orange.

Badr Merdassi (13:22):

Oh, yeah.

Sydney Smith (13:22):

Yeah, burnt orange.

Cate Pitterle (13:23):

Burnt orange, yeah.

Sydney Smith (13:23):

That’s what it was. So I personally liked when I got to Wake’s campus, especially in comparison to those larger state schools, being from, like, the SEC territory, or even you were talking about being from in state, you know, NC State and UNC.

(13:35):

The way that Wake did it was that we were at, like, a yellow sort of status, and that was denoting, you know, how bad COVID had spread on campus..

Shea Kidd Brown (13:42):

So there was the whole color coding spectrum?

Sydney Smith (13:44):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (13:44):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (13:44):

And we knew what would happen-

Shea Kidd Brown (13:45):

And I wasn’t here yet-

Cate Pitterle (13:45):

See, yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (13:47):

… that’s one thing that I didn’t share, but… Yes.

Sydney Smith (13:48):

I was gonna say. So they had yellow for the most part, right?

Cate Pitterle (13:51):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (13:51):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (13:51):

Throughout our first semester.

Sean Brady (13:53):

It was almost through the end of September, right?

Sydney Smith (13:54):

Yes.

Sean Brady (13:55):

I think it was right around, like, the normal fall break-

Shea Kidd Brown (13:57):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (13:57):

… is when we had some orange pop up.

Sydney Smith (13:58):

Some spikes and everything.

Cate Pitterle (13:59):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (14:00):

So we never went to red.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:01):

Okay.

Sydney Smith (14:01):

Which I thought was-

Shea Kidd Brown (14:02):

And that was the worst?

Sydney Smith (14:02):

That was, like, your whole-

Cate Pitterle (14:03):

Purple was getting sent home.

Sean Brady (14:04):

I think that-

Shea Kidd Brown (14:04):

Oh, okay.

Sean Brady (14:04):

Yeah. I think red was, like, a complete s-, uh, cease of all campus activity.

Cate Pitterle (14:09):

Yeah, you’re right.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:09):

Okay.

Sean Brady (14:09):

Like, no in-person class, I think we-

Sydney Smith (14:10):

Like, you can’t leave even your room, right?

Sean Brady (14:12):

Yeah. I think we went to a darker orange.

Sydney Smith (14:13):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (14:14):

That, like, a, a new color orange-

Sydney Smith (14:15):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (14:15):

… just to avoid red at the time.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:16):

Okay.

Sean Brady (14:16):

Just to kind of keep somewhere in the middle.

Sydney Smith (14:18):

Mm-hmm. So when burnt orange, like, came out and everyone, they changed it, it was on lower quad and they had this big sort of not tarp, but almost like a poster board that would denote what level color we were at.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:29):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (14:29):

And they changed it to burnt orange, and everyone, especially the freshmen, we were like, in my opinion not going crazy, but we were so worried.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:35):

You were nervous.

Sydney Smith (14:35):

Yeah, nervous-

Shea Kidd Brown (14:36):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (14:36):

… ’cause you don’t wanna get sent home or have anything really bad happen.

Shea Kidd Brown (14:38):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (14:39):

We didn’t know what was gonna go on.

(14:40):

I remember my friends in the basement of Babcock, the day before we thought it was gonna go to burnt orange everyone was Uber Eating and everyone was Instacart-ing things from Publix, ’cause they were like, “We’re gonna have to stay in our dorms.”

Sean Brady (14:51):

Like hurricane preparation, right?

Sydney Smith (14:53):

Yes. It was like a natural disaster preparation, we were so nervous. And then I think it was burnt orange for, like, a little bit, and that was short-lived. And then things started to sort of mellow out after a while.

Shea Kidd Brown (15:01):

Okay.

Sean Brady (15:01):

Remember the day that we shifted? Because I think the first thing I’d do every morning when I’d wake up is check COVID dashboard.

Sydney Smith (15:07):

Yes.

Badr Merdassi (15:08):

Oh, yeah, that…

Sydney Smith (15:08):

Yes (laughs).

Cate Pitterle (15:08):

Yeah, daily routine.

Sean Brady (15:08):

It was, like, my most visited bookmark, ’cause I was like, “This dashboard will depict kinda how the day goes,” in that sense. And trying to get a better understanding of what campus looked like. And so some days it would seem normal, and then other days you would be like, “Oh, wait, is this-“

Sydney Smith (15:20):

Oh gosh.

Sean Brady (15:20):

“This is… There’s five people now today, what would that be?”

(15:23):

It just seemed almost, uh, like, fake in a way. But, like, as I was coming up the, the lower quad to the Pit, the wonderful people from facilities and campus services, but they were dawning a new banner over the Pit stairs, and was to indicate orange.

(15:37):

And, like, you kinda see this, and overwhelming feeling, ’cause you’re like, “I don’t know what this means,” you know?

Sydney Smith (15:42):

Right.

Sean Brady (15:42):

“What are they trying to say? Can I even go into the Pit now?”

(15:45):

A lot of our first semester was kinda defined by the visuals on campus-

Sydney Smith (15:48):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (15:48):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (15:49):

… there was a lot of posters, there were the little things that hung on the door handles to your dorm room-

Shea Kidd Brown (15:53):

Oh, no.

Sean Brady (15:53):

… kinda offering safety tips, or stickers on the bathroom wall, or whatever it might be. I think those kind of alluded to me where we were with COVID on the campus, when there’s more signage things weren’t s great, when there’s less signage more people were outside, things seemed to be better.

Badr Merdassi (16:07):

You know, my first semester, I would say, in college was spring. And I came in and I had to do a mandatory first week quarantine, although I was negative, because of international travel. And then I came in, and it was yellow at that time, beginning of spring semester.

(16:21):

And then I got exposed to what the dashboard meant, it fluctuates. And that’s how your semester fluctuates.

Shea Kidd Brown (16:28):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (16:28):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (16:28):

It fluctuates with the number of cases.

(16:30):

And when we went into dark orange, I remember it was 390 plus, I don’t know exactly the number, cases a day. And what defined that moment, I will never forget it, were the buses on campus that shuttled students to hotels in the Winston-Salem community.

Shea Kidd Brown (16:52):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (16:53):

We were getting tested, but if you were positive then the suite mates you were living with also had to be quarantined.

Sydney Smith (17:00):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (17:00):

Would go, yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (17:00):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (17:00):

I didn’t have COVID, but I was contact traced, that’s another word-

Shea Kidd Brown (17:04):

Oh, you’re bringing back all these terms.

Cate Pitterle (17:07):

I remember [inaudible 00:17:08].

Badr Merdassi (17:08):

Contact tracing, oh yes. And, believe it or not, but I remember two people all in white came into my room and sprayed my room-

Sydney Smith (17:16):

Yes.

Badr Merdassi (17:17):

… because it was COVID.

Sydney Smith (17:17):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (17:17):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (17:18):

And then the bus picked me up, and stopped at probably every dorm on this campus to pick other people up, and dropped us at hotels.

Cate Pitterle (17:26):

It’s so interesting everybody brings up the hotels, because I remember, and this is something I thought as really, really weird around younger students now, is that-

Sydney Smith (17:32):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (17:32):

… the Best Western especially became kind of notorious.

Shea Kidd Brown (17:34):

Yes.

Cate Pitterle (17:35):

And nobody understands.

Badr Merdassi (17:36):

Oh, yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (17:36):

Best Western on the plus.

Cate Pitterle (17:36):

We’re the only ones left who understand. Yeah.

Sydney Smith (17:38):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (17:39):

Like, just like certain, like, things that happened, and like inside jokes that I feel like our grade had.

Sydney Smith (17:43):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (17:43):

Or like at least that, like, my friends and I had.

Badr Merdassi (17:46):

Absolutely.

Cate Pitterle (17:46):

Like, about the hotels, or like, you know, like, “Oh, I’m going to the Besty Westy.”

Sydney Smith (17:48):

Westy (laughs).

Cate Pitterle (17:48):

Like, “Oh…” Yeah (laughs).

Shea Kidd Brown (17:49):

Yes.

Cate Pitterle (17:49):

Like, I feel like it’s just really odd now to be the only ones, kind of how everybody during COVID, especially like that fall and spring semester ’20, ’21, was this craving for information.

Shea Kidd Brown (18:00):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (18:01):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (18:01):

Nobody had any information. I actually joined the Old Gold & Black partially because I wanted information, and so I could at least communicate that.

Sydney Smith (18:10):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (18:11):

Like, try to, like, create some sort of link between administrators and all of the health-

Sydney Smith (18:15):

Right.

Cate Pitterle (18:15):

… policy people who I got to know, honestly, very well.

Sydney Smith (18:17):

And there’s comfort in knowing.

Badr Merdassi (18:17):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (18:20):

Right. And I just remember, like, just calling administrators. I got very, very close with, like, a few administrators, like Penny Rue, who’s your predecessor, Peterson, like, they were all fantastic.

(18:28):

And I just remember, though, like, I would tell my friends, like, some stuff that was happening, and the rumor mill was just-

Shea Kidd Brown (18:32):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (18:32):

Godawful.

Cate Pitterle (18:33):

… out of control. And it was really, really hard to stay above that, it was just a lot of anxiety, I think, that was in the air.

Sydney Smith (18:41):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (18:41):

And definitely during my time there it was also wonderful, because the OGB was one of the only clubs on campus that was able to meet in person, so that was a great sense of community for me. But it was also just really great in terms of being able to get, yeah, some of the comfort of knowing what was going on-

Sydney Smith (18:55):

Right.

Cate Pitterle (18:56):

… and not being so susceptible to the rumor mill.

Sydney Smith (18:58):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (18:59):

Information that was coming at us at times, it wasn’t even a lack of information, it was almost too much information.

Shea Kidd Brown (19:04):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (19:05):

And it w- felt overwhelming at times.

Sydney Smith (19:07):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (19:07):

And that’s something that I definitely haven’t really felt since, I think. That was just really exacerbated during COVID, was just the amount of information flying at you.

Shea Kidd Brown (19:15):

Yeah. And processing also being a student-

Cate Pitterle (19:17):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (19:18):

… during this period of time.

Cate Pitterle (19:18):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (19:19):

And classes.

Cate Pitterle (19:20):

It’s super true.

Shea Kidd Brown (19:21):

Yeah. Well, it’s interesting, so much of what was scary about that period of time for all of us was the not knowing, you know? And I, I was at the University of Tennessee the spring of your high school, very much trying to hold as much as I could. And was dealing with students, and so working alongside the administration around… This was different for y’all, but maybe not.

(19:45):

In colleges we sent students home for spring break, and thought, “We’ll be closed for a little bit,” you know? And that was, I think, a lot of people’s perspective too, was that this was gonna be much more short term than it ended up being. It’s conjuring up some memories for me as well.

(20:02):

Many of you talked about, “Okay, this is what it was like.” How did you find connection and community? Cate, you mentioned the OGB was one of those ways. So maybe it’s a two-parter of what are the ways you remember coping? Who were the people who really helped you and supported you? How did you find that connection and belonging as you moved through that first year?

Badr Merdassi (20:24):

Sense of community sometime was about doing what was needed, while doing your best to maintain everyone safe and healthy.

Shea Kidd Brown (20:34):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (20:34):

While also trying to make a community. Although, even if meant, you know, risking getting caught by the RA, or anyone else at night in the basement of Babcock.

Sydney Smith (20:47):

That is so funny you said the basement of Babcock. So, for context, I did live in the basement of Babcock my freshman year. I did not know Badr, but I do know him now.

Shea Kidd Brown (20:54):

(laughs).

Sydney Smith (20:55):

And I also have been an RA for the past three years, so I, ironically, this doesn’t usually happen, but I have lived in Babcock all four years.

Shea Kidd Brown (21:02):

Wow.

Sydney Smith (21:02):

No idea (laughs) how that happened. But I started in the basement, and now I live on the third floor, so I guess somebody up there is working something out, right?

Shea Kidd Brown (21:08):

Mm-hmm (laughs).

Sydney Smith (21:09):

I think that, for whatever reason, the specific floor that you were placed on, it was for our freshman year-

Cate Pitterle (21:15):

Yes. Yes.

Badr Merdassi (21:15):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (21:15):

… that everyone jokes about your freshman year friends, “And that won’t last, because it’s college,” and, you know, you keep on changing and progressing as a person.

(21:24):

You guys all might have different experiences, for me personally, my cohort freshman year of friends, I mean, we’re getting brunch on Easter, because we were all in Base-cock, if you will, we were all in the basement of Babcock our freshman year.

(21:34):

And so I think that we really bonded more than any other-

Badr Merdassi (21:36):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (21:37):

… school year.

Shea Kidd Brown (21:37):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (21:38):

I mean, you know, typically you might live on the basement of Babcock, but of all of the COVID restrictions it was like, “Well, this is my floor, and these are my people.”

Shea Kidd Brown (21:43):

These are your people.

Badr Merdassi (21:44):

Exactly.

Sydney Smith (21:44):

I’m about to get a chance to know you. So in my opinion that’s how it was.

Cate Pitterle (21:47):

I’m so excited that you brought that up-

Sydney Smith (21:48):

Aye.

Cate Pitterle (21:48):

… because my freshman year friends are some of my best friends. Like, we’re doing our senior photos next week.

Sydney Smith (21:54):

Yes.

Cate Pitterle (21:54):

I do agree, I feel like when I’ve been talking to younger students about their freshman year friends, and their experiences making friends freshman year have just been so, so different from ours. For the most part community building occurred in residence halls-

Shea Kidd Brown (22:08):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (22:08):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (22:08):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (22:08):

… and it’s actually really interesting, when I started to talk to more people, as things started to open up, where you were placed kind of randomly that freshman year really determined your entire social life for that freshman year.

Shea Kidd Brown (22:20):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (22:20):

Yes.

Badr Merdassi (22:20):

Absolutely.

Cate Pitterle (22:21):

So I got really lucky, I was on Huffman third floor, which is a really interesting place to live-

Sydney Smith (22:26):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (22:26):

… because freshmen do not live there anymore. But it was 13 girls. I don’t know, I just really became close with a lot of the people on my floor, and it was really wonderful. But it was definitely hard to talk with multiple people, we had a really strict RA. It was just so, so restricted.

Badr Merdassi (22:42):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (22:42):

So we had to kind of figure it out, figure out how to make, like, a friend group-

Shea Kidd Brown (22:48):

Right.

Cate Pitterle (22:48):

… when you couldn’t really gather in a group. But I think there’s that unique experience of bonding that you get when you go through that sort of thing together.

Shea Kidd Brown (22:57):

Certainly.

Cate Pitterle (22:57):

Especially because we all ended up randomly being just very similar people.

Shea Kidd Brown (23:00):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (23:01):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (23:01):

Um, (laughs) which I thought was really funny. So I’m really grateful for that.

(23:04):

But I also think that it wasn’t until probably second semester freshman year, quite frankly when I joined a sorority, that in was able to start making more friends outside of that too.

Shea Kidd Brown (23:14):

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (23:14):

And once I did that it was easier, but it was very, very difficult outside of your residence hall-

Shea Kidd Brown (23:18):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (23:18):

… to find community.

Sean Brady (23:20):

I do think that, like, some of the people, um, that lived on the same hall I did in Babcock, I was third floor.

Badr Merdassi (23:24):

(laughs).

Shea Kidd Brown (23:25):

Babcock, representing.

Sydney Smith (23:26):

Everywhere.

Sean Brady (23:26):

Um, indeed, indeed. And it was interesting to see where, like, I think pretty much everyone who was on that floor with me, like, were also very friendly, in the send of I see them around campus we’re gonna say, “Hey, how’s it going?” You know, and our friend circles have kind of overlapped at some point.

Shea Kidd Brown (23:37):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (23:38):

But, you know, kind of where I was, it was a little more of a quieter floor, a lot of people kinda kept to themselves. So it was an interesting dynamic to see.

(23:45):

And one of the things that I still kind of search for, even going into senior year, was kind of like, “What does the freshman year experience look like at Wake?”

Shea Kidd Brown (23:51):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (23:52):

And it’s funny, I’ve had the opportunity to kind of witness it in a way, ’cause my sister’s a freshman here now.

Sydney Smith (23:56):

That’s right.

Cate Pitterle (23:56):

Oh.

Sean Brady (23:57):

So I’ve seen a, a normal freshman year from her perspective. And it, and it is fun, it is everything that-

Sydney Smith (24:01):

(laughs).

Sean Brady (24:01):

… sold me on the Wake Forest way.

(24:03):

A freshman year experience is always gonna be unique for everyone. And I think, you know, we all certainly had a unique experience, but we all shared it together.

Shea Kidd Brown (24:10):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (24:10):

Which allowed for it to kind of be a more even playing field, in a way. So much of how people interact with each other, what we do is, is all perspective based.

Shea Kidd Brown (24:17):

Yeah, totally.

Sean Brady (24:18):

And COVID, while it certainly took a, a lot of lives away from our communities all across the world, and brought a lot of badness to families, and a lot of chaos to the global landscape, everyone treated it a little differently, right?

Cate Pitterle (24:30):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (24:30):

Yeah, absolutely.

Sean Brady (24:31):

I remember some people being like, “Nope,” like, “I was a, a great athlete in high school, like, my lungs are good to go. Like, I can take on any kind of virus illness.”

Shea Kidd Brown (24:39):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (24:39):

And others were extremely afraid, and whatever it may be. And it was an interesting balance to kind of hear between both, because on that side of things, like, RAs also had mixed views.

Shea Kidd Brown (24:49):

Right.

Sean Brady (24:49):

Some were like, “I get it, I’m a sophomore, I know how valuable freshman bonding is.” Others were, “This is my job,” like, “I’m not the one deciding to enforce it, it’s just what I have to do.”

Shea Kidd Brown (24:58):

Right.

Sean Brady (24:59):

And I think that was the most unique part for me, it was everywhere you went it was a case by case, you know-

Shea Kidd Brown (25:04):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (25:04):

… situation of who was in charge, in a way.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:07):

Right. And then that whole environment shaped-

Sean Brady (25:09):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:09):

… how you were making sense of it. Even picture, you know, you on the quad, and even your outlook to green space, versus if you’re on South Forest and what that might’ve-

Sydney Smith (25:19):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:20):

… meant, versus who randomly you were around. Like, all of those things connected with your experience.

Badr Merdassi (25:26):

You just said something that just gonna h- hop on.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:27):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (25:29):

You talked about green space, et cetera.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:31):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (25:31):

I can’t say h- why or how, but things were just less colorful freshman year.

Sydney Smith (25:38):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (25:39):

You know, Wake puts a lot of effort into making this campus beautiful, and there wasn’t that much emphasis freshman year. And rightfully so-

Shea Kidd Brown (25:47):

Right.

Badr Merdassi (25:48):

… because the folks were somewhere else.

(25:50):

And you said, Sean, something that’s exactly on point, which was every dorm had a specific, you know, situation.

Shea Kidd Brown (25:58):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (25:58):

And instead of bar hopping, it was dorm hopping.

Sydney Smith (26:03):

Yes (laughs).

Badr Merdassi (26:03):

And re- that’s, that’s exactly what it was. It was, “What dorm is the most flexible today?”

Shea Kidd Brown (26:07):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (26:08):

“Who’s there? Who’s not there?”

(26:10):

And I don’t know if I’m the only one, but it’s really hard for me sometimes, you know, when I give advice to freshmen. Especially this year I was able to speak to the entire class on how to college, thanks to you, Dr. Shea.

Shea Kidd Brown (26:24):

(laughs).

Badr Merdassi (26:25):

And I felt jealous, a bit.

Shea Kidd Brown (26:27):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (26:27):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (26:27):

I really did.

Cate Pitterle (26:28):

Yes.

Badr Merdassi (26:29):

And I just could not resist it. And I continue to feel that.

(26:32):

I am really happy that they don’t have to go through what we had to go through. The amount speed and, like, they make friends with, they’re just-

Sydney Smith (26:43):

Mm-hmm, yes.

Cate Pitterle (26:43):

Definitely.

Badr Merdassi (26:43):

… thriving and doing amazing things that we were only able to do, what, maybe even spring semester of sophomore year, just because we needed to settle in back in this campus.

Cate Pitterle (26:50):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (26:50):

Yeah, yeah.

Cate Pitterle (26:53):

Do you know what’s horrible? Do you remember the t-shirts they created for each residence hall-

Sydney Smith (26:57):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (26:58):

This past fall?

Cate Pitterle (26:58):

… on South Campus?

Badr Merdassi (26:58):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (26:58):

Such cute t-shirts. I, to your point about jealousy, I remember I saw the t-shirts for the first time, and I was just so jealous-

Badr Merdassi (27:05):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (27:06):

… that these freshmen were getting these t-shirts they would probably only wear for two weeks, because then it would be uncool. And then I realized a lot of it was also just because I didn’t have a connection to South Campus.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:14):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (27:15):

Like, I walk around S- South Campus-

Badr Merdassi (27:16):

No.

Cate Pitterle (27:16):

… I still don’t always know where I’m going.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:18):

Yeah, ’cause you were never there.

Cate Pitterle (27:18):

I was never there.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:19):

Well, and we’ve said, it’s funny y’all mention the t-shirts, because that started this past fall, and it’s the first years, just everything’s new when you’re a first year. So, “This is how Wake Forest has always been,” you know (laughs)?

(27:29):

And I remember seeing second years this past fall, they were like, “Wait, where’s my t-shirt?” Or, you know-

Cate Pitterle (27:33):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (27:34):

… y’all are mentioning this as seniors, so, uh, it is interesting. And even just this conversation, I hope the first years can listen, because it’s also, I would imagine, there’s great value now in the bright spots, that it is more colorful, that Wake Forest that you knew has emerged, um, in your experience.

(27:51):

So I am curious, this first year, probably year and a half, really challenging from an aspect of, “I’m a first year student, I’m making meaning of what it means to be a college student. I’m really far from home,” in some cases, “Making sense of a global pandemic in my own health, or the health of my friends.”

(28:07):

So at what point did Wake Forest start to feel like home? Or you started to see that actual sunlight? I joined you the spring of your sophomore year, and I remember, just getting back to what Badr said, that Cate and I were talking, and I was just getting connected with students as a new vice-president. And she’s like, “Dr. Shea, we do not know how to college.”

Cate Pitterle (28:30):

(laughs).

Shea Kidd Brown (28:30):

And (laughs) so that is actually how the, the panel emerged, is, like, “How do we help students to re-socialize with the college experience?” And I’m digressing a little bit, but I think the question I would love to know is, when did you start to turn the corner from this really dark, bleak time to, “Okay, this place is starting to feel like home, I’m starting to feel connected, starting to feel like I belong”?

Sydney Smith (28:53):

First I will say, as a tour guide I, you tend to, um, finish my tours talking about this point. But, you know, I always say, “I got here in 2020. Oh, poor me, miniature violin.”

Shea Kidd Brown (29:02):

(laughs).

Sydney Smith (29:03):

And all the parents and students they say, “Oh, I’m so sorry.” I say, “No, it’s okay.” I say, “When you’re touring schools and touring colleges, specifically now at Wake, some of your are here right now as juniors and seniors in high school. And you’re so excited because you’re on this campus, and you feel like, ‘This is it, this is the one for me.’ And you know it.”

(29:18):

I have friends who are on the dance team, and the cheer team especially, who grew up in North Carolina. And they’re like, “Wake has always been for me, and I’ve know it.”

(29:25):

Personally, when I toured, I loved it. But I didn’t know that.

Shea Kidd Brown (29:28):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (29:28):

I was impressed, but I wasn’t, like, “Let me early action, early decision,” that just wasn’t really a part of my being, I suppose.

Shea Kidd Brown (29:35):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (29:35):

And so I always finish my tours by saying, “And it’s really important and nice that you might feel that way now, for this school or any other school. But what’s more important in my opinion is to make sure that feels like home after all of, like, the glistening glamour sort of dies down.”

(29:47):

And for me, I really like Wake Forest because it was easy to make it feel like home once I got here, even in the midst of COVID.

Shea Kidd Brown (29:53):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (29:54):

When I was a freshman I got back late one night from cheer practice, a hard practice with a lot of running (laughs), that I wasn’t expecting. And my friends on, you know, Babcock basement floor, they knew that I had a rough practice that night, ’cause one of the dancing girls, who’s still my friend ’til today, came back and told them earlier.

(30:10):

They went out to the P.O.D by Subway and they got me, like, a Twix bar and a KitKat, and, like, wrote me a little note, and they were like, “Go to bed early, like, we love you.” And it was the people.

Shea Kidd Brown (30:19):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (30:19):

Only a couple of months in, even during COVID, that was a real-

Shea Kidd Brown (30:21):

So that was your first year?

Sydney Smith (30:22):

Yes. And that, they made it feel like home.

(30:24):

On the flip side, because COVID was still going on, I’ll say probably when you got here, the spring of my sophomore year was when COVID out of the way, that’s when it started to-

Shea Kidd Brown (30:33):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (30:33):

… feel like home, because I was realizing that now I was part of all these different leadership organizations, I could do all these different things on campus. Felt like home when I felt upset because I had to choose between being able to different things.

Shea Kidd Brown (30:46):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (30:46):

‘Cause when you were a freshman during COVID, it was like, “Oh, well, I’m just grasping at straws to do one thing.”

Shea Kidd Brown (30:50):

Right.

Sydney Smith (30:51):

‘Cause you could only do so much with COVID restrictions, when I was an RA, and also a cheerleader. Maybe even during the fall of our sophomore year when I was seeing how the freshmen were welcomed into the dorm, and I couldn’t be a cheerleader outside welcoming them in with pompoms, but I could be an RA sitting there at the desk.

Shea Kidd Brown (31:05):

Mm-hmm.

Sydney Smith (31:06):

I was like, “Wow,” like, “I’m happy now, because I get a chance to have to choose.”

Shea Kidd Brown (31:09):

Right.

Sydney Smith (31:09):

Like, a choice, in my opinion, was like a privilege.

Sean Brady (31:11):

I think for me it was similar to you, it was certainly maybe the end of my sophomore year that I finally felt connected. And I think for me my biggest issue was, is I’m kind of the person, like I think a lot of us are, like as soon as you do something you wanna buy-in, right? You wanna commit to it, you, you know, we’re not doing things kind of partially or anything like that.

Shea Kidd Brown (31:28):

Right.

Sean Brady (31:29):

And for me, I knew what I wanted was there, ’cause that’s why I chose the place. But up until then everything felt surface level, right? It felt like every kind of interaction I had with people was very surface level.

Sydney Smith (31:40):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (31:40):

And not because of anything, like, wrong between that, just like maybe our schedules were off, or, you know, where I was living in Babcock maybe there’s only a couple people around me. Sort of knew each other, but not really that well.

(31:51):

And so everything was like I could go out and be able to, like, say hi to somebody as I was walking to class, or to the Pit or something like that, but were they my true friend, or something like that. And that’s kind of what I felt like I was missing, was like organizations to belong to, and kind of that group of people-

Shea Kidd Brown (32:04):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (32:04):

… that you call.

(32:05):

I remember still to this day, it’s the greatest thing I, I did not end up doing. But I remember, like, early on in my sophomore fall, like, there was a period of probably about two weeks that, like, I was thinking like, “Maybe this is not the school for me.”

(32:15):

And I think it was ’cause I kind of knew there was something else out there at Wake that I was waiting to find. And I’m very thankful that that did come across, you know, my sophomore spring, ’cause that’s what kept me here. And then I was able to go abroad in the junior fall-

Shea Kidd Brown (32:28):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (32:29):

… and I felt like all I kept doing was building friendships.

Shea Kidd Brown (32:32):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (32:32):

And now here I am getting ready to graduate, I have the greatest group of friends I could’ve ever asked for. You know, people that I hope to know forever-

Cate Pitterle (32:40):

That’s really sweet.

Sean Brady (32:41):

And, like, it’s one of those ones similar to what you were saying-

Sydney Smith (32:42):

Yeah.

Sean Brady (32:42):

… which is, like, I think what makes me realize Wake is home in that sense is that I can take it away from the campus as well.

Sydney Smith (32:47):

Mm-hmm.

Sean Brady (32:48):

So these are people I like to go on trips with, or go to a concert with, or go do fun things if we’re all in the same area over the summer, stuff like that. I feel like Wake Forest can go on the road with me now, which makes me realize this is where I was supposed to be.

Sydney Smith (33:00):

Love that.

Cate Pitterle (33:01):

That’s, like, actually just a really nice thought, ’cause I was thinking about that the other day with, “How am I gonna keep in tough with all of my friends? We’re all moving to different cities.” But, like, finding home in community…

(33:09):

And I know, just to go back to your original question, you talked about turning the corner. And I was kind of thinking about this question, and I didn’t really know how to approach it, because I don’t ever think I turned a corner. I think the process of Wake Forest becoming home to me was very gradual, I don’t remember a specific moment-

Shea Kidd Brown (33:24):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (33:25):

… where I thought like, “Okay, this is home now.”

Shea Kidd Brown (33:26):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (33:27):

Or, like, I… Or a moment where I felt like I, it wasn’t home but then suddenly it was. I think it was always kind of it started at a point and then it just progressed. Until one day I was just talking to my mom and I was home for the weekend-

Shea Kidd Brown (33:39):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (33:39):

… or something like that, and I said, “All right, I’m gonna drive home now.” And then-

Shea Kidd Brown (33:42):

Ooh (laughs).

Cate Pitterle (33:42):

And, oh.

Sydney Smith (33:42):

Yeah (laughs).

Cate Pitterle (33:44):

I do, I do actually remember… I don’t remember when that was, but I do remember for the first time I said that. And mom was like, “You’re driving home?” And I was like, “Oh, back to Wake.” Like (laughs)-

Shea Kidd Brown (33:51):

(laughs).

Cate Pitterle (33:52):

Like, “This is home, but, like, also that’s home.” And I, I just kind of got to a point where I felt like I had two homes.

Sydney Smith (33:58):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (33:58):

And I think my sense of home has really evolved and changed, just how I define the word, since I’ve been at Wake.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:03):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (34:03):

Because I went abroad and for a while the Worrell House was home.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:06):

Mm-hmm.

Cate Pitterle (34:07):

And I interned in DC for two summers, and I actually lived in the same building both summers, so for periods of time the Wake Forest, Wake Washington housing was home.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:14):

Right.

Cate Pitterle (34:15):

And I think I’ve just allowed myself, having lived in the same town my entire life, to create home in different places, and to allow myself to feel settled into a place, and allow myself to call that place home even if it’s only temporary.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:27):

Yeah.

Cate Pitterle (34:28):

And Wake is only four years, it is temporary-

Shea Kidd Brown (34:30):

Right (laughs).

Cate Pitterle (34:30):

… as we’re all very, very aware right now.

(34:32):

But I don’t think it was ever turning a corner at a certain point, I came here and it was always home, but it just started evolving into more of home.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:40):

Mm-hmm. Yeah, more comfort making-

Cate Pitterle (34:41):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:41):

… with home?

(34:41):

And that’s, the way you described it, is also, Sean, you were saying you can take home with you (laughs) now.

Cate Pitterle (34:46):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (34:47):

So you’ve done that internationally in another city, so that’s great.

Badr Merdassi (34:50):

The concept of home is really interesting and very t- something I’ve… I wouldn’t say struggled with, because that’s a negative connotation, which in this case doesn’t at all. But as an international student, this isn’t just another place, this is another country-

Shea Kidd Brown (35:06):

Right.

Badr Merdassi (35:06):

… another state, another culture, just everything that’s different.

(35:10):

And one can say that that’s a lot harder to make it home, but for the first day I wanted to have it all.

Shea Kidd Brown (35:17):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (35:18):

I was like, “I’m gonna make this place my home.”

Shea Kidd Brown (35:21):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (35:22):

“It’s not gonna come to me, I’m gonna make it.” And it was really hard to do that spring semester of freshman year, but I, you know, discovered so many people.

(35:31):

And then I realized that it’s not much the geographical place that make it home, ’cause you know, you can recreate Wake probably somewhere else than in Winston-Salem, but if you take the people that make Wake-

Shea Kidd Brown (35:43):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (35:44):

… it’s not gonna be Wake Forest. You can name it something else, in a way.

(35:48):

And a lot of things happened summer going into sophomore year, but the first day of sophomore year, getting back onto this campus, I’ll never forget the feelings that I had. And it was, “This is it.”

Shea Kidd Brown (36:02):

(laughs).

Badr Merdassi (36:03):

“This is home. This is where I feel, you know, not just safe, but this is where I feel like I belong.” And, and it just made so much sense sophomore year. I call sophomore year my actual freshman year.

Shea Kidd Brown (36:15):

(laughs).

Sydney Smith (36:15):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (36:16):

I would say really the first day of sophomore year. But the settling part, the part where I’m like, “I’ve got it,” quote unquote, “… all covered, I know what I’m doing,” was probably junior year.

Shea Kidd Brown (36:28):

Yeah.

Sydney Smith (36:28):

Mm-hmm.

Badr Merdassi (36:29):

And that might sound late, but I guess for me, or for our class, junior year I was like, “Yeah, I mean, I know this place very well now. I’m well established, and I’ve got it.”

(36:40):

It’s a tricky answer, but, um-

Shea Kidd Brown (36:42):

Yeah.

Badr Merdassi (36:42):

But, yeah, it’s a great question.

Shea Kidd Brown (36:43):

By the head nods, I don’t think it’s an odd response. I think, you know, referencing Cate said, “Dr. Shea, we don’t know how to college,” it was because your first year you didn’t have the, the orientation experience at all, so this whole onboarding that we take great pride in from a first year standpoint.

(36:59):

Your second year you were no longer a first year, so you didn’t get that onboarding (laughs) your second year. And then for third year, and y’all didn’t go into this, but third year many of you were heading abroad. So it was like you were much more comfortable, and you were doing this different experience. And so it’s really, like, a year and a half that you’ve had what might have felt like what you expected in a college experience.

(37:25):

Wow, what a great start to our conversation with these seniors. From their transition to Wake Forest in the height of a global pandemic, to finding their people and finally being able to call Wake Forest home, they truly have shared so many memories and stories, and tidbits of wisdom.

(37:44):

Tune in next week to hear the second part of my conversation with Cate, Sydney, Badr and Sean, where we move beyond the pandemic years and start shedding some light on the rest of their college experiences here at Wake. From successes to lessons learned, to looking forward to life after Wake Forest.

(38:02):

Thank you for listening and for hearing these students’ stories of resilience, and community, and hope, and home. We all have stories to share of perseverance and trying, I kid you not. So keep leaning into the hard work and heart work.

MaryAnna Bailey (38:20):

This episode was produced by Vir Gupta, in association with the university’s Campus Life team.

(38:27):

For any thoughts and suggestions on what or who you want to hear next time, reach out to us on our socials using the information in the show notes. I’m MaryAnna Bailey, and this was Kid You Not.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:04):

Hey! It’s Dr. Shea, and today I have the pleasure of talking with Ms. Sonny Davis. Most people just know her as Ms. Sonny. Born in North Carolina, Sonny has lived in both Pennsylvania and North Carolina, and before joining Wake Forest, she worked downtown at the Piedmont Club. For nearly seven years, Ms. Sonny has brought the sunshine to our students and everyone who has come in contact with her. Truly, her name says it all. She first began her career at Wake in The Magnolia Room, then later moved to the Pit. And if you’ve dined in the Pit, then you’ve likely been welcomed by her most amazing smile, style, and presence. I am so delighted to talk with her today. So, how you doing?

Sonny Davis (00:52):

I’m doing pretty good.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:52):

Good.

Sonny Davis (00:53):

No complaints.

Shea Kidd Brown (00:54):

So, hey.

Sonny Davis (00:54):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (00:54):

You gotta, you gotta greet me like you just-

Sonny Davis (00:56):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (00:56):

… greeted me. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (00:56):

(laughs) Hello, Dr. Shea! How are you?

Shea Kidd Brown (00:56):

Ms. Sonny, I’m good.

Sonny Davis (01:00):

This is such a pleasure.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:02):

It’s such a pleasure just-

Sonny Davis (01:03):

Oh, I’m-

Shea Kidd Brown (01:03):

… to see you.

Sonny Davis (01:04):

… so nervous.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:05):

Hey, don’t be nervous.

Sonny Davis (01:06):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (01:07):

Hey, secret, I’m nervous, too.

Sonny Davis (01:09):

Are you?

Shea Kidd Brown (01:09):

Yes.

Sonny Davis (01:10):

You’re amazing.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:11):

No! You are amazing. That’s-

Sonny Davis (01:12):

Mm-hmm. I’ve been watching clips of you.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:13):

Oh.

Sonny Davis (01:14):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:15):

Well-

Sonny Davis (01:15):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:15):

I hear about you all the time through our students.

Sonny Davis (01:19):

How is that possible?

Shea Kidd Brown (01:20):

Because you bring the sunshine.

Sonny Davis (01:22):

Hm.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:22):

Seriously.

Sonny Davis (01:22):

Do I really?

Shea Kidd Brown (01:24):

Yes, because I’m fairly new here. You know that, right?

Sonny Davis (01:27):

No.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:27):

I’ve only been here two years. And so- Yes. (laughs) Y’all can’t see her face, but (laughs) she’s-

Sonny Davis (01:34):

Oh my God.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:34):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (01:34):

That’s … Well, that’s pretty awesome, ’cause you’re well-talked-about.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:36):

Well … Oh!

Sonny Davis (01:36):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:37):

And as are you.

Sonny Davis (01:38):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:38):

So seriously, when I launched the podcast, I was talking to students.

Sonny Davis (01:41):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:42):

Like, “Who do I need to bring?” They’re like, “Ms. Sonny! You have to bring Ms. S-

Sonny Davis (01:45):

Wow.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:45):

I promise.

Sonny Davis (01:45):

Things like that.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:47):

I promise. And I have eaten in the Pit, you’ve seen me in the Pit.

Sonny Davis (01:49):

Yes, yes, yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:51):

And you just exude this joy-

Sonny Davis (01:53):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:54):

… and just a great personality. So I’m just so glad you’re here today.

Sonny Davis (01:57):

Thank you.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:58):

There’s nothing to be nervous about.

Sonny Davis (01:59):

Okay.

Shea Kidd Brown (01:59):

First of all, your name.

Sonny Davis (02:00):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (02:01):

It’s Sonny, S-O, right-

Sonny Davis (02:03):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:03):

… N-N-Y.

Sonny Davis (02:03):

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:03):

And I think about S-U-

Sonny Davis (02:03):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:03):

… N.

Sonny Davis (02:07):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:08):

I think about the sunshine. Like, that’s what I said in this, in your intro. But, I always start podcasts as I get to know people with this-

Sonny Davis (02:15):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:15):

… idea of home.

Sonny Davis (02:16):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:16):

So, where’s home for you?

Sonny Davis (02:18):

Well, it’s here, but I’ve lived in Pennsylvania.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:20):

What part of Pennsylvania?

Sonny Davis (02:21):

Reading.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:21):

Reading.

Sonny Davis (02:21):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:21):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (02:21):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:21):

Was it too cold or you just-

Sonny Davis (02:21):

Philadelphia. No.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:21):

… did you … You just decided to come back home?

Sonny Davis (02:26):

I loved it.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:26):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (02:26):

No. I loved it, it’s just, I don’t know, my grandparents was here.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:30):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (02:31):

My father was here. So I was-

Shea Kidd Brown (02:32):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (02:32):

My sister moved back here, so I went following behind her.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:35):

Yeah! It’s like-

Sonny Davis (02:36):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:36):

… family.

Sonny Davis (02:36):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:37):

It’s important, that they-

Sonny Davis (02:38):

So that brought me here.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:39):

Yes.

Sonny Davis (02:39):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:39):

So, and I always ask the question where is home for you? Because you get to include North Carolina-

Sonny Davis (02:44):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:45):

… and Pennsylvania-

Sonny Davis (02:45):

This is home.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:47):

… and any … This is home?

Sonny Davis (02:47):

This is home.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:48):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (02:48):

This is home.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:48):

You lived there, but this-

Sonny Davis (02:50):

Hm.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:50):

… is home.

Sonny Davis (02:50):

This is home.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:50):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (02:51):

(laughs) Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:51):

In Winston?

Sonny Davis (02:52):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:52):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (02:52):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:54):

So, the second part of that question is, what does home mean to you?

Sonny Davis (02:57):

Family, friendships.

Shea Kidd Brown (02:58):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (02:59):

Just friendly faces and-

Shea Kidd Brown (03:00):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (03:00):

… you know, hospitality.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:01):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (03:02):

And that’s what Winston is for me-

Shea Kidd Brown (03:03):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (03:03):

… it’s hospitality.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:04):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (03:04):

Hm.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:04):

I agree.

Sonny Davis (03:05):

I love it. It sticks with me. I worked at the Piedmont Club, so I was there for-

Shea Kidd Brown (03:08):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (03:09):

… 18 years.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:10):

Okay. Yeah.

Sonny Davis (03:10):

That’s where it all began for me.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:12):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (03:12):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:13):

And then you came to Wake seven years ago.

Sonny Davis (03:14):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:14):

Right?

Sonny Davis (03:15):

Yes, ma’am.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:16):

Okay. Well, and we’re gonna dig into that in-

Sonny Davis (03:17):

Oh, boy.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:17):

… a little bit.

Sonny Davis (03:17):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (03:18):

A little bit.

Sonny Davis (03:19):

(laughing)

Shea Kidd Brown (03:19):

But I want to know, so you talk about home is, is family.

Sonny Davis (03:23):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:25):

It’s comfort.

Sonny Davis (03:25):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:25):

It’s smiling faces. And-

Sonny Davis (03:26):

Food.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:27):

Food. Yes.

Sonny Davis (03:28):

I love to cook.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:29):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (03:29):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:30):

Tell me more. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (03:30):

Okay.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:31):

What do you like to cook?

Sonny Davis (03:32):

Everything.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:32):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (03:33):

I do Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Father’s Day, and Fourth of July for my family-

Shea Kidd Brown (03:38):

Ooh.

Sonny Davis (03:38):

… every year. Every year.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:39):

Is there a set menu?

Sonny Davis (03:40):

Yeah, pretty much.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:40):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (03:42):

You know? Our Father’s Day is always fried fish, fried chicken.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:44):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (03:44):

… or ribs, what the fathers love the most.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:46):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (03:46):

So I do a lot of that for them. ‘Cause they don’t get their opportunity.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:50):

Ooh.

Sonny Davis (03:50):

So they get to set out in the yard, play their little cards.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:52):

I love that.

Sonny Davis (03:52):

And, you know, and play dominoes and-

Shea Kidd Brown (03:55):

And let people take care of them.

Sonny Davis (03:56):

Yes. And we take care of them.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:59):

So what’s your-

Sonny Davis (03:59):

They deserve that.

Shea Kidd Brown (03:59):

What’s your favorite thing you like to cook?

Sonny Davis (04:02):

I guess I would say, uh, potato salad, baked beans is one.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:04):

Now is your potato salad mustard or mayonnaise based?

Sonny Davis (04:06):

Both.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:07):

Ooh.

Sonny Davis (04:07):

I use both.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:08):

Is that a secret?

Sonny Davis (04:09):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:09):

Not a secret anymore!

Sonny Davis (04:14):

No, it’s not. (laughs) I use both. But, that’s what I … Coleslaw is one of my-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:16):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (04:16):

… big things, you know?

Shea Kidd Brown (04:17):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (04:17):

And I like to do, I do it in bulk, you know-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:19):

Of course.

Sonny Davis (04:20):

… for them, you know, and-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:20):

For the whole family.

Sonny Davis (04:20):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:22):

Now what proteins?

Sonny Davis (04:23):

Deep-fried fish. I have two f- I have a fish fryer and a chicken fryer.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:26):

Speaking of which.

Sonny Davis (04:27):

And I have a grill on the side of me and I barbecue the ribs.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:30):

If y’all could see, she’s, like, motioning-

Sonny Davis (04:32):

Yes. I have it-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:33):

… all-

Sonny Davis (04:33):

Yes. (laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (04:33):

… they’re all- There are all, the things (laughs) are laying out.

Sonny Davis (04:34):

I’m blocked in from all this-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:36):

Right.

Sonny Davis (04:36):

… and I’m-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:36):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (04:36):

… just going at it, and they’re just-

Shea Kidd Brown (04:37):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (04:38):

They’re all surprised that I do this.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:40):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (04:40):

And, and then my uncles and everybody come down from Pennsylvania.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:41):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (04:43):

And I cook for them around Fourth of July, every year.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:45):

Oh, that’s amazing. It’s funny, as you were talking about your fish and chicken in different pots.

Sonny Davis (04:49):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:49):

And my husband’s from Baton Rouge.

Sonny Davis (04:51):

Ooh.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:52):

Exactly. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (04:53):

Ooh.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:53):

So-

Sonny Davis (04:54):

He know some stuff.

Shea Kidd Brown (04:54):

He knows some stuff!

Sonny Davis (04:55):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (04:56):

In fact, when we moved here, we had a team that was helping us move and they said-

Sonny Davis (05:00):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:01):

“Excuse me? Mr. Brown, are you a chef?” (laughs)

Sonny Davis (05:02):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (05:03):

And he said, “No. Why are you asking me that?” And they were like, “You got all these pots!”

Sonny Davis (05:07):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (05:07):

(laughs) “what are you gonna do with all these pots?”

Sonny Davis (05:07):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (05:09):

They’re propane, we got our-

Sonny Davis (05:11):

Everything.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:11):

… crawfish pot, you got-

Sonny Davis (05:12):

Oh, my.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:12):

We do catfish.

Sonny Davis (05:13):

Oh.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:13):

‘Cause I’m from Mississippi.

Sonny Davis (05:15):

You got to have catfish.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:15):

So, gotta get-

Sonny Davis (05:15):

Oh, my.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:16):

… have a catfish pot. And we don’t fry it in- inside, everything is fried outside.

Sonny Davis (05:19):

Everything’s fried outside. That’s my son.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:21):

And then … And then he’s got his pots for-

Sonny Davis (05:22):

Hm.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:23):

… jambalaya, gumbo, all those kinds of things.

Sonny Davis (05:25):

Oh, boy.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:25):

So we can have a time.

Sonny Davis (05:27):

We can have a great time.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:29):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (05:29):

We could. We’ll-

Shea Kidd Brown (05:29):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (05:29):

… have to plan that.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:29):

I mean it. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (05:29):

I’m serious.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:29):

I mean it.

Sonny Davis (05:29):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (05:34):

I am, too. So I know family is important to you.

Sonny Davis (05:35):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:36):

And I heard you have a new grandbaby.

Sonny Davis (05:38):

I do.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:39):

Tell me about your grandbaby.

Sonny Davis (05:40):

Oh, his name is Kairee.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:41):

Aw.

Sonny Davis (05:42):

He was a little early.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:43):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (05:43):

He stayed in the hospital for about a m- three weeks.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:46):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (05:46):

And, uh, he got his weight up, and-

Shea Kidd Brown (05:47):

Oh.

Sonny Davis (05:48):

He’s home. I just-

Shea Kidd Brown (05:49):

How old is he now?

Sonny Davis (05:50):

He’s two months.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:51):

Oh my gosh. So he’s really young.

Sonny Davis (05:53):

He’s really young, yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:53):

Oh my gosh.

Sonny Davis (05:55):

He’s amazing. Oh my God.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:56):

Yes.

Sonny Davis (05:57):

Just to look in his face and he just … He’s making goo-goo noises, now.

Shea Kidd Brown (05:59):

Oh. Now-

Sonny Davis (06:01):

I’m like … I’m like, “You’re moving a little fast.”

Shea Kidd Brown (06:02):

Yes. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (06:02):

“Slow down.”

Shea Kidd Brown (06:02):

Exactly.

Sonny Davis (06:02):

Just-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:02):

It happens-

Sonny Davis (06:02):

… he just-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:02):

… so fast.

Sonny Davis (06:05):

Oh my God. They’re coming out, walking. They-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:09):

Yes. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (06:09):

… do that.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:09):

It’s like there’s something in the water.

Sonny Davis (06:09):

There’s something in the water. (laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (06:11):

So what is he gonna call you?

Sonny Davis (06:12):

He’s gonna call me Nana.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:13):

Oh, that’s my mom’s name.

Sonny Davis (06:14):

He’s gonna call me Nana, ’cause-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:15):

Hm.

Sonny Davis (06:15):

… my granddaughter, she calls me Nana.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:17):

Oh, I love that.

Sonny Davis (06:18):

And she’s six.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:19):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (06:20):

Who’s-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:20):

My mom was Nana. I have Nana and Pops.

Sonny Davis (06:22):

So I got their room together in there.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:24):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (06:24):

So he got his-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:25):

How far apart are they?

Sonny Davis (06:26):

He’s two months.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:26):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (06:27):

And she’s six years old.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:28):

Oh, six.

Sonny Davis (06:28):

But then-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:28):

You just said that.

Sonny Davis (06:28):

But they’re different sons, different sons got these babies.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:30):

Oh. But you-

Sonny Davis (06:30):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:30):

… have rooms for them.

Sonny Davis (06:33):

Yes. I got it ready already. (laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (06:35):

Now, my mom says, “Gr-being a grandmother is grand- “

Sonny Davis (06:47):

It is. (laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (06:47):

… because I can have this room.

Sonny Davis (06:47):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:47):

And then I can say-

Sonny Davis (06:47):

I can say, “Yeah.”

Shea Kidd Brown (06:47):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (06:47):

Yeah. Mm-hmm. ‘Cau-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:47):

That was fun. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (06:47):

Then, “goodbye.”

Shea Kidd Brown (06:47):

“See you later.” (laughs)

Sonny Davis (06:47):

(laughs) If I want to change it, I can change it.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:47):

That’s right.

Sonny Davis (06:47):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:47):

That’s right.

Sonny Davis (06:48):

Mm-hmm. (laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (06:48):

Well, so I started off the podcast by saying your reputation, you know? Like-

Sonny Davis (06:54):

Hm.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:54):

Students love you.

Sonny Davis (06:55):

Ah-

Shea Kidd Brown (06:55):

S-

Sonny Davis (06:55):

I love them.

Shea Kidd Brown (06:56):

Well, I know that.

Sonny Davis (06:57):

This place is d- Oh, I don’t know what I’ve been doing all these years-

Shea Kidd Brown (07:00):

Aw.

Sonny Davis (07:00):

… without them.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:01):

Aw.

Sonny Davis (07:02):

And each year it gets better.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:03):

Yeah?

Sonny Davis (07:03):

I couldn’t imagine anything else.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:05):

Really?

Sonny Davis (07:06):

Just seeing their faces, and-

Shea Kidd Brown (07:07):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (07:08):

The breaks are too long. I have it rough because I look forward to seeing them every day.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:11):

Uh-huh.

Sonny Davis (07:12):

So when they get a break, I be … They don’t realize, I be really sad, for real.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:15):

Oh.

Sonny Davis (07:15):

It’s not for … It’s not play.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:16):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (07:16):

And my family, I just talk so wholly they be like-

Shea Kidd Brown (07:18):

(laughs)

Sonny Davis (07:19):

“Let me go back the work. I be glad when you go back to work.”

Shea Kidd Brown (07:21):

Right.

Sonny Davis (07:21):

You know what I mean? ‘Cause I just-

Shea Kidd Brown (07:21):

So you see your students.

Sonny Davis (07:23):

I just wanna see my babies.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:23):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (07:24):

He, “You don’t love us no more. It’s all about your babies.”

Shea Kidd Brown (07:26):

Right.

Sonny Davis (07:26):

“All y’all my babies. But- “

Shea Kidd Brown (07:28):

That’s right.

Sonny Davis (07:28):

“These are my babies.”

Shea Kidd Brown (07:29):

So tell me about that journey to Wake Forest. How did you decide-

Sonny Davis (07:33):

Oh my God.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:33):

… to come here?

Sonny Davis (07:34):

I left Piedmont Club, and I was-

Shea Kidd Brown (07:36):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (07:36):

… just sitting at home. It w- I was in my second month.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:39):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (07:39):

My first week of the second month of being outta work.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:42):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (07:42):

‘Cause we closed down.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:43):

Oh, okay.

Sonny Davis (07:44):

And I was just sitting. And I was like … And I seen they had a job fair come up.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:47):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (07:47):

And I kept debating. And I’m like, “I remember I tried to get in there a long, long time ago.”

Shea Kidd Brown (07:51):

Hm.

Sonny Davis (07:52):

But they were full. They had no openings.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:54):

Okay.

Sonny Davis (07:54):

‘Cause everybody was wanting to work here.

Shea Kidd Brown (07:55):

Right.

Sonny Davis (07:56):

So that’s how I wound up. But I waited, and my t- and my time, I was like, “I’m going to the job fair.”

Shea Kidd Brown (08:01):

Your time came. Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (08:01):

The time I walked in that Coliseum, saying-

Shea Kidd Brown (08:04):

(laughs) You were at the Joel?

Sonny Davis (08:05):

… I ran … y- Yeah. I ro- I walked into the Coliseum and I ran into Ms. Danny-

Shea Kidd Brown (08:10):

Uh-huh.

Sonny Davis (08:10):

… and Ms. Jessica. And they, and they … And I told them who I was, and what had going. And it was like immediately, right-

Shea Kidd Brown (08:15):

Hired on the spot.

Sonny Davis (08:16):

“Grab her.”

Shea Kidd Brown (08:16):

Oh my God. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (08:17):

“She … Don’t let her go nowhere.” And they sent me to get my urine test, and they hired me-

Shea Kidd Brown (08:21):

Oh-

Sonny Davis (08:21):

… on the spot.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:22):

… my goodness.

Sonny Davis (08:23):

And I’ve been here ever since.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:24):

Oh.

Sonny Davis (08:25):

And I started here on my mother’s birthday, which is July 25th.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:27):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (08:28):

That’s the day she was born. It’s the day she passed.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:28):

Really?

Sonny Davis (08:31):

Yes. It’s-

Shea Kidd Brown (08:31):

What a-

Sonny Davis (08:31):

it’s an amazing day.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:32):

… special day.

Sonny Davis (08:32):

Exactly.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:33):

Wow. Wow.

Sonny Davis (08:33):

It is very special to me.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:34):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (08:34):

Yeah.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:34):

And so I-

Sonny Davis (08:36):

It just was meant to be.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:37):

It was meant to be.

Sonny Davis (08:37):

Mm-hmm.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:37):

Well, we are better because of it.

Sonny Davis (08:38):

(laughs)

Shea Kidd Brown (08:41):

So you s- So you say you’re sad when the students leave.

Sonny Davis (08:46):

Yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:46):

So tell me some of the things that you miss, some of the things you learned from them?

Sonny Davis (08:48):

The, “Good morning, Sonny’s,” the … I don’t know. It’s just it’s a feeling.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:52):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (08:52):

You know what I mean?

Shea Kidd Brown (08:53):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (08:53):

And it’s not all the same.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:54):

Right.

Sonny Davis (08:54):

But they’re all great.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:54):

Hm.

Sonny Davis (08:54):

You know what I mean?

Shea Kidd Brown (08:54):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (08:58):

You know, just the, “Good morning, Sonny.” Just the smile.

Shea Kidd Brown (08:59):

Right.

Sonny Davis (09:00):

Even t- some of the international students-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:01):

Hm.

Sonny Davis (09:02):

… they just … I can’t pronounce with all their names.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:03):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (09:04):

So they are sweethearts. They’re sweet as can be- 

Shea Kidd Brown (09:04):

Right. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (09:04):

… to me, you know?

Shea Kidd Brown (09:04):

Right. (laughs)

Sonny Davis (09:06):

And, and they appreciate that.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:08):

Absolutely.

Sonny Davis (09:08):

You know? Instead of me saying y-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:09):

And personalize.

Sonny Davis (09:10):

Yes. And they’re-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:10):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (09:11):

… our … These kids are our future.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:14):

Mm-hmm. I hear you have a way, uh, for keeping names.

Sonny Davis (09:16):

Oh, yes.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:16):

This true?

Sonny Davis (09:17):

I like to jot ’em down in this little book I have.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:18):

Yeah?

Sonny Davis (09:19):

(laughs) I got all the football players-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:21):

Oh my gosh.

Sonny Davis (09:22):

… in one … in one area of the (laughs) book, then I got-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:23):

Mm-hmm.

Sonny Davis (09:24):

… the baseball players here-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:25):

Right.

Sonny Davis (09:26):

… the soccer players-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:27):

Oh my gosh.

Sonny Davis (09:27):

… and then all my students are like mixed in all of this.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:29):

Uh-huh.

Sonny Davis (09:29):

So I have to keep flipping sometimes-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:30):

(laughs)

Sonny Davis (09:31):

… just to get my memory back.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:33):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (09:33):

You know what I mean?

Shea Kidd Brown (09:33):

Yeah. It’s a lot-

Sonny Davis (09:33):

When we’re out on-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:33):

… to remember.

Sonny Davis (09:33):

… when we’re out on break.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:33):

Right.

Sonny Davis (09:36):

So I have to get all this back, ’cause I don’t want them to think I forgot them.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:38):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (09:39):

So I have to see them for the first couple days. And I’m gradually pulling names-

Shea Kidd Brown (09:42):

Yeah.

Sonny Davis (09:43):

… off my top of my head.

Shea Kidd Brown (09:49):